Heat Distribution Suggestions

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Devil505
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Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
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Post Fri. Nov. 16, 2007 2:42 pm

Looking for suggestions as to how to distribute the heat from my Harman TLC throughout my 44'X24" house more efficiently.
If you look at the diagram, my stove is in a basment family room (in one corner of the house) while my central (gas forced hot air) furnace is at the other end of the house. Right now, I have a few egg crate panels in the family room ceiling & a few floor registers in the bedrooms above. I also have a bathroom exhaust fan in the suspended ceiling (a few feet in front of the coal stove) venting directly into the warm air plenum above. (to try to let some heat trickle through the floor vents above)
I have also put (what amounts to) a blower fan blowing hot air off the top of the stove & have a pedestal fan blowing up the stairs in the basment.
The coldest areas are the living room & dining room as they are at the far end of the house.
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Heating System.jpg
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
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Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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LsFarm
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Post Fri. Nov. 16, 2007 3:23 pm

Isn't this the same question you asked here: How Do You Distribute Heat From Your Stove? ?? :)

My answer is still the same, buy the Harman distribution fan for your TLC, hook a duct from the inlet of the fan to the cold air return duct, or better yet from a single duct in the floor of the far end of the house. This will pull cold air from the farthest room, and create a circulation loop. This circulation loop is critical for even heat.

read this: cold air return & radon issues Even two 1.5" ducts and small fans made a significant difference for pret.

Greg L
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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Devil505
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Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
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Post Fri. Nov. 16, 2007 4:57 pm

I guess it is the same question Greg, but I figured that the diagram would help. The cold air return is nowhere near the stove & I don't think my wife would like pipe run to the bottom of the stove for the air inlet. How about just cutting a floor vent in the dining room floor to let the colder air fall?
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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coal berner
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
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Location: Pottsville PA. Schuylkill County PA. The Hart Of Anthracite Coal Country.

Post Fri. Nov. 16, 2007 5:11 pm

Been There dunn that it does not work I put two in and you can;t feel any cold air going down or hot air coming up What happends the hot air to make it workdown stairs is fighting with the cold air from the floor upstairs you end up with dead air pockets you would be better off opening the basment door to get cold air return and hot air going up The best way is what Greg said take the cold air and put it threw the stove fan blower and turn it into hot air The only good way That it will work
J.C.

Heating house & water with a 1986 electric furnace man DF520 using buckwheat Anthracite coal


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LsFarm
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Post Fri. Nov. 16, 2007 5:36 pm

Hi Richard,
You show suspended ceiling in the coal stove's room, so you can hide the duct above the ceiling quite easily. The only exposed portion would be the piece coming out of the ceiling dropping down behind the stove to the inlet of the distribution fan.
If done properly, it would look like a second chimney flue. Use 4" dryer vent, it is cheap, and easy to work with. Use rigid vent where visible and paint if flat black like the chimney flue. I'd tap into the existing return air duct just because it is close, I'm assuming you can get to the existing return air duct from above the suspended ceiling panels.

Then cover the majority of return air floor grills except those in the far end of the house, in the living room. You will have created a good circulation loop and the living room will warm nicely.

Greg L
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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Devil505
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Post Fri. Nov. 16, 2007 8:37 pm

LsFarm wrote:Hi Richard,
You show suspended ceiling in the coal stove's room, so you can hide the duct above the ceiling quite easily. The only exposed portion would be the piece coming out of the ceiling dropping down behind the stove to the inlet of the distribution fan.
If done properly, it would look like a second chimney flue. Use 4" dryer vent, it is cheap, and easy to work with. Use rigid vent where visible and paint if flat black like the chimney flue. I'd tap into the existing return air duct just because it is close, I'm assuming you can get to the existing return air duct from above the suspended ceiling panels.

Then cover the majority of return air floor grills except those in the far end of the house, in the living room. You will have created a good circulation loop and the living room will warm nicely.

Greg L


So let me see if I understand the principle at work here......If I tap into the cold air return plenum (near the stove) & connect it to the distributioin inlet under the stove, when I run the stove fan I will be creating a vacuum that will be forceful enough to travel the full length of the house (through the return air plenum) to the central furnce & then move air through the supply ducts? (again, the only heat I have going into the supply duct is that from a bathroom exhaust fan I have installed in the family room ceiling going into the supply (warm air) duct)
Then, what happens when I want to run the central furnace normaly , as I do some really cold mornings to jump-start the heat?
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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Devil505
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Post Fri. Nov. 16, 2007 9:11 pm

Keeping in mind that the basement is totaly & permanently opened to the upstairs by the stairway (split entry ranch), I had always assumed that the colder (upstairs) air would just natural fall down the stairs all by itself. (while the warmer basement air was traveling up the stairway along the ceiling)
I could easily run a 6" duct from a floor vent I could cut in the dining room floor, run it above the suspended ceiling the length of the house (44') & then drop it down behind my stove to the inlet......Question is: since the stairway is open anyway, would I really feel a difference in the heat distribution to make it worth doing? (by doing this, I could still operate my central heat without any problems)
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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LsFarm
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Location: Michigan

Post Sat. Nov. 17, 2007 12:52 am

Right now, from your diagram, you have vents into the bedrooms above the stove, and I assume they are warm enough, but the dining area is not. The only way you will get a positive flow of warm air to the distant dining room is to pull air from that room.

As for using the exsisting cold air return duct, I was suggesting this to overcome any resistance to running a 44' duct. It may cause some flow reversal in the added stove duct when you use the forced air system, I wasn't aware that you still used it at all.

Since you said: quote: "I could easily run a 6" duct from a floor vent I could cut in the dining room floor, run it above the suspended ceiling the length of the house (44') & then drop it down behind my stove to the inlet " Uquote, then I would highly suggest that you do exactly that.

There have been far too many other forum members who have done as you describe above with very good results to not believe that you too would have good results.

You can't pressurize the room, but you can pull cool air off the floor and allow warm air to take it's place.

I'd try it, history shows that it will work.

Greg L
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?


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Devil505
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Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post Sat. Nov. 17, 2007 3:09 am

Again, thanks for your helpfull replies Greg. I was in bed (it's 3:00am here ) & had a brain storm so I am now back at the computer.......Since I still have (& occasionaly run) a central forced warm air heating system in place, why not take advantage of the system's ducts & fan? There are already cold air returns in the dining room & upstairs hall & I put one in the family room (floor level) when I built the family room in the basement.
How does this sound:
I replace the central furnace fan with a new one that has a high & low speed setting (the system is 30 years old & I'm sure the fan could use replacing anyway) & replace the thermostat with one that has a "fan only" setting? Then, I could run the fan to draw the cold air off at a low speed setting but then switch to a higher speed when I call for furnace heat?
I could also replace the basment cold air return grill with one that can be opened (for regular heat) or closed when I just want the fan to circulate air. I could also cut a new (closeable) ceiling vent into the downstairs cold air return that would draw off some stove warmed air when I am just using the fan to recirculate?
Then I wouldn't need to fool with the stove fan at all & the furnace heater would work normaly.
What do you think?
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill
Shaking & Poking The TLC2000 Video

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Dallas
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Post Sat. Nov. 17, 2007 8:26 am

I have configured my system to be something like you outline above.

My thoughts were to merely run the hot air blower from the furnace for air circulation. Although not circulate "all the time", but when the stove room reached a predetermined temp. I reversed (rewired) an old thermostat, which I had, but an "air conditioning T-stat" would be what was needed. I tied this to the "fan" circuit. I have hot air ducts, as well as returns in the room. However, they were "add-ons", so I don't know how well they work. (The hot air was there, but I added some returns, through the floor joist/ceiling of the room.)

So, if the room gets warm enough, the T-stat turns the furnace blower on. The problem, which I think you eluded to above, is that the moving air feels chilly, as it's fairly low temp.

On my furnace, I believe the blower has to be wired for "fast or slow". For this application, "slow" would be preferred. .. for heat, "fast" would probably be the choice.

I'm sure this can be overcome with some relays, etc., however to complicate it, something should be incorporated to switch the blower back to high, if furnace heat is called for during the "cooling cycle" of the stove room.

Addendum: While the above method sounds like it should work and be a method, which would incorporate existing devices, I'm not sure it's the best.
One reason, the room has to get pretty warm to be able to realize the heat gain at the other end of the house. Maybe slower air movement would help. ??

Right now, it seems like a box fan, set on low, is doing a better job, to keep the room temperature down, while sending the heat off to the rest of the house.

New York Bear
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Post Sat. Nov. 17, 2007 6:21 pm

I'm a relative newbie here, but befor coal, I heated my home with wood. I have a 28'X48' log home with full walk out basement, with basement being well insulated, and stove and masonry chimney at south end of house in basement. All we have is an open stairway and radiation thru the floor, and house is always 70 degrees plus. We have never felt a need for vents. JMHO

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