Foam Insulation Test FAIL

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
Post Reply
rwwsr
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun. Jan. 21, 2007 11:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: ahs s260 3
Coal Size/Type: pea
Location: Dover, Delaware

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 3:17 pm

I need to make a 100' run of 1" pex al pex with a short underground (4') section between buildings. So I figured I could simply inject one or two cans of foam insulation inside the 4" drain pipe containing the 4 lines of 1" pap and have water proof and insulation in one easy step.
The test was a 3' length of drain pipe containing 4 runs of pap and one can of foam in the center. All was looking good and after 24 hrs I cut the pipe to see my handy work.
FAIL - apparently the foam needs air contact to cure properly it was still wet and had deflated inside the pipe.
I guess I will have to make an insulated chase for this to work.
foam1.JPG
ready to inject
foam2.JPG
looking good
foam3.JPG
FAIL
Randy

User avatar
freetown fred
Member
Posts: 21421
Joined: Thu. Dec. 31, 2009 12:33 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 3:29 pm

No matter what I run underground waterwise, I go below the frost line---usually 3'--even if I'd have to put some angled fittings to it. OR--as you said, insulated chase will do it. Outstanding effort though. ;)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

User avatar
I'm On Fire
Member
Posts: 3920
Joined: Thu. Jun. 10, 2010 9:34 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator
Location: Vernon, New Jersey

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 3:40 pm

I too tried to make something with spray foam once and had the same results as you did. Although it never occurred to me that it needs air to solidify.

syncmaster
Member
Posts: 300
Joined: Sat. Apr. 19, 2008 1:29 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: harmanVF3000 Coal/oil option
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: VF3000
Stove/Furnace Model: Harman VF3000
Location: long Island,NY

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 5:35 pm

i found a interesting video for insulated underground pex:




i bit of over kill but inexpensive .


User avatar
009to090
Member
Posts: 5104
Joined: Fri. Jan. 30, 2009 10:02 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice
Location: Warrenton, NC

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 5:43 pm

This is the stuff I like....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmvgDdVO6m0&
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

User avatar
jpete
Member
Posts: 10580
Joined: Thu. Nov. 22, 2007 9:52 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice
Location: Warwick, RI

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 5:49 pm

I think you can buy/rent the "A" and "B" tank units at Lowes. They may cure a little more quickly and give better results.
Jeff

“Many people want the government to protect the consumer. A much more urgent problem is to protect the consumer from the government.”

Milton Friedman

User avatar
009to090
Member
Posts: 5104
Joined: Fri. Jan. 30, 2009 10:02 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice
Location: Warrenton, NC

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 5:57 pm

jpete wrote:I think you can buy/rent the "A" and "B" tank units at Lowes. They may cure a little more quickly and give better results.
Yep, or you could get this kit....
http://www.sprayfoamdirect.com/video/FIG602.php
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

User avatar
Richard S.
Mayor
Posts: 12709
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite
Location: NEPA

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 7:49 pm

rwwsr wrote:apparently the foam needs air contact to cure properly it was still wet and had deflated inside the pipe.
I'm guessing a lack of anywhere to expand, once the ends are cured a little it can't expand into the rest of the pipe because of pressure. I'd see if I could long adapter/hose so you could pull it out length of pipe while you're spraying. Drill more holes in the outer pipe for expansion.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein


User avatar
Freddy
Member
Posts: 6605
Joined: Fri. Apr. 11, 2008 2:54 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined
Location: Orrington, Maine

Post Sat. Oct. 29, 2011 9:23 pm

I used "donkey dink" pre-formed pipe insulation. It comes 4 feet long & comes in many sizes. Lowes or HD has it. Slide it on, job done. It keep the pipes apart as well as insulates them. I did that on four pipes, then wrapped the four in that silver/ aluminum foil bubble wrap, then put it all inside a 6" schedule 20 pipe & buried it 5 feet down. Might be hard to see, but here's a pic.
Attachments
to this.JPG
Orrington, Maine
Fred

"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

rwwsr
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun. Jan. 21, 2007 11:41 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: ahs s260 3
Coal Size/Type: pea
Location: Dover, Delaware

Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 9:48 am

Thanks all for your input. On to plan B.

I do not think any of the foam insulation products will properly cure inside the 4" drain pipe. It would have been quick and easy but I would never know for sure.

So, being as I only need 4' of the 100' run insulated I am leaning toward transition to 6" drain pipe then use Freddy's method for insulation, bury between buildings (18" deep) and then transition back to uninsulated 4" pipe for balance of run.

The frost line here in Delaware is only 24" and the space between building rarely freezes. there are water lines 12" deep that have never froze (yet).
Randy

User avatar
Yanche
Member
Posts: 3032
Joined: Fri. Dec. 23, 2005 12:45 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Location: Sykesville, Maryland

Post Sun. Oct. 30, 2011 10:25 am

I used 8" PVC pipe for my underground conduit. Normally sold for well casing; PVC schedule 80. I have one 90 degree elbow in my run. I sliced the elbow in two, clam shell style on the table saw. Installed the bottom half to the pipes with PVC cement, installed my pipes and electrical conduits and then installed the top half of the conduit using RTV silicone. It's worked well for me. The schedule 80 is quite strong and unlikely to fail from any weight placed on it. I used HVAC closed cell pipe insulation to insulate my boiler water pipes.
Yanche
Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Stoker Boiler burning Anthracite Pea Coal

Post Reply

Return to “Coal Bins, Chimneys, CO Detectors & Thermostats”