Carbon Monoxide Detector SAFETY WARNING

joecoal · Post by **joecoal** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2009 12:55 pm

will do thank you

lowfog01 · Post by **lowfog01** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2009 8:40 pm

I don't think anyone has seen this under this thread. Most everyone just sort of glances at this but really get excited about the "Venting, plumbing, chimney…" thread. Resubmit and I'm sure you'll get some responses. Do a search because there has been a lot of information about CO2 problems posted. Lisa

JB Sparks · Post by **JB Sparks** » Thu. Mar. 12, 2009 9:14 pm

Well, Joecoal, you do have some troubleshooting to do but, if the co detector is only reading 26 ppm it's not panic time. You say when you clear the detector and it goes right back to the same reading, I would suspect the detector is not clearing properly. The best way to prove this is go to HD and get a new one and compare readings. I price one yesterday and they are about $ 43.00. Now having said that there is CO coming from some place so, I would check your flue connector pipe from stove to chimney and see if you aren't getting some leaking in any of the pipe seams. You can rap all the seams with Aluminum tape to seal the pipe. Also make sure you are getting enough supply air to the stove, It needs make-up air to burn properly.

Now just to put this in perspective, according to the experts, the CO detectors are set to go into alarm at 100ppm for a duration of 20 minutes. They also say that it takes 3200 ppm for a half hour duration or 6400 ppm for 10 minutes to kill you. So a reading of 26 ppm requires investigation but, it's not panic time.

Hope this will help

lowfog01 · Post by **lowfog01** » Sat. Mar. 14, 2009 7:43 am

JB Sparks wrote:Well, Joecoal, you do have some troubleshooting to do but, if the co detector is only reading 26 ppm it's not panic time.

I never said it was time to panic - I said turn the stove off until you figure out what's going on. That's just being prudent not panicked. In my humble opinion, any CO in the house is too much and it's not something I want to mess with at all. We have CO monitors so we can have early warning. Are we going to ignore them because it's too low a reading? How low is too low? Is any CO bad or just when it gets to certain level? Who can accurately define that level? It's not something I'm going to mess with because I've been told all CO is bad and I believe it! I don't think that "bad" is a gray area - it's all bad or its not - no in between. My question is will this "not so bad" situation get worse fast or slowly? It's not a chance I'd want to take.

Did you get a chance to look at some of the recent postings on CO? I don't have time today to find the posting but just last week or so someone wrote in with a CO leak on a new install. The guys of the forum where able to work through the set up and solve the problem. It would be very beneficial if you could find that. Good Luck, Lisa

PS. One of the rock songs my daughter listens to refers to the warning of the "canary;” a reference to the historical fact that canaries were used to provide warnings to the miners of the presence of gases. She now refers to our CO2 monitors as the canaries.

The child also didn't know what AM and FM meant so she decided that AM was "Adult Monotony" and FM was "Fun Music." She has always seen the world just a tad different.

joecoal · Post by **joecoal** » Mon. Mar. 16, 2009 1:49 pm

I turned off my stove and had the people that did the install on my stove come in on the same day they resieled the pipes from stove to chimney I restarted the stove and all was clear I am not getting any reading of co in the house

joecoal · Post by **joecoal** » Mon. Mar. 16, 2009 1:55 pm

I was very consorned about the co as I have a wife and 5 childern ( yes you read it right 5) ranging from 11 to 2 in age and all I could find was a little info on how it effected the adults thanks for your intreast I was just not sure if I was going overbord or not

JB Sparks · Post by **JB Sparks** » Mon. Mar. 16, 2009 3:15 pm

That's good news Joecoal, i'm glad everything work out for you. Five kids!!

Yanche · Post by **Yanche** » Mon. Mar. 16, 2009 10:18 pm

As the originator of this thread I encourage those of you that are just now reading this thread to read my first post on page 1 of the thread. I've just checked the links to Mr. Donnay's web sites and they still work. Be sure to look at them. They are highly technical but the point is CO bad and the standards for the detectors are not as low as some medical evidence would indicate they should be. The full test of Mr. Donny's letter is quoted below. It's what prompted me to start this thread. Carbon monoxide poisoning is serious stuff, especially to children.

Begin quote ...

Baltimore Sun
Letters to the Editor
ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED JULY 14, 2007

Monoxide monitors blare much too late. Contrary to a statement attributed to Battalion Chief Michael Robinson of the Baltimore County Fire Department in the article "Carbon monoxide sickens 3" (July 7), the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency does not recommend evacuation when carbon monoxide (CO) levels exceed 35 parts per million. The EPA allows an hourly average exposure to CO of 35 ppm. It does not regulate CO indoors or recommend evacuation at any level. The only federal agency that recommends evacuation to prevent CO poisoning is the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, and it does not recommend evacuation until the level exceeds 200 ppm.

In contrast, the fire departments of Baltimore County and the city recommend evacuation at any level above 35 ppm. But unfortunately, the Consumer Product Safety Commission does not allow home CO detectors to sound an alarm until they have detected a CO level of more than 70 ppm for one to four hours. However, by this time, all those exposed will have been at least mildly, if not severely, poisoned. This is apparently just what happened to the Lutherville family that was saved when its CO detector sounded on July 6: Three people who were exposed had to be rushed to hospitals by ambulance for treatment. So why are carbon monoxide detectors not required, as smoke detectors are, to alarm instantly as soon as a dangerous level is detected? And how many more needless poisonings will The Sun report before it investigates this public health scandal?

Albert Donnay
Lutherville
The author is an environmental health engineer and a certified carbon monoxide analyst.

End quote

ggans2 · Post by **ggans2** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2009 10:56 pm

Do CMD's need to be mounted high like smoke detector's?

SteelerCoal · Post by **SteelerCoal** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2009 11:00 pm

No. CO is neither lighter nor heavier than the surrounding air. Most recommendations are to have it around the height you would be breathing. Most models have a stand attached, so you can rest them upright on a table or shelf. There is not really a bad place to put them, but they are a must.

jim d · Post by **jim d** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2009 11:05 pm

not according to the experts , and also the installation instructions

ggans2 · Post by **ggans2** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2009 11:09 pm

Been reading, part of what he said is true however it can rise with hot air so high is good.If your burning a stove for sure.

SteelerCoal · Post by **SteelerCoal** » Sat. Oct. 24, 2009 12:03 am

This thread has a lot of information. You should read it from page 1 on through. Your best bet is to have several CO detectors in your home, and at least one on each floor.

Yanche · Post by **Yanche** » Sat. Oct. 24, 2009 9:22 pm

ggans2 wrote:Do CMD's need to be mounted high like smoke detector's?

As I posted on the first page of this thread the scientific answer is in this link:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03364.htm

You should really read the entire thread including the various links for a through understanding of the CO detector technology, where to mount them and when to replace them. There is not a single correct answer, like so many things "it just depends ..."

Tull · Post by **Tull** » Sun. Oct. 25, 2009 1:46 pm

Regarding the detectors not alarming at low CO levels - is it because they are set up to detect acute problems and not chronic ones? I've never had one of my (multiple) detectors sound an alarm; I've found trouble by watching the meters and reading the peak values. (I don't have strong draft with my setup, and when draft gets very low I'm more likely to see something on the meters.)

As has been said, I think any coal user needs to use CO meters and check them on a daily basis. Actually, I've seen occasional non-zero readings when using my oil system, so any fossil fuel user can benefit also.

Thanks to Yanche and the other very knowledgeable forum members for all the info.

Wayne L.