Ash Disposal?

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Richard S.
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Post Sun. Dec. 28, 2008 4:04 am

Well I went an looked, Calcium Chloride is used to make brine for controlling ice on roads. I'd imagine it would be what we commonly know as "Quick Joe" but don't quote me on that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_chloride
Calcium chloride is a salt that is solid at room temperature, and it behaves as a typical ionic halide. It has several common applications such as brine for refrigeration plants, ice and dust control on roads, and in concrete. It can be produced directly from limestone, but large amounts are also produced as a by-product of the Solvay process. Because of its hygroscopic nature, it must be kept in tightly-sealed containers. It is used to turn kelp into a solid.
All I know is that *censored* will eat right througha sidewalk if you use enough of it.
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cArNaGe
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Post Sun. Dec. 28, 2008 4:12 am

Google Calcium Chloride and Tractor Tires.

It is common practice to "Load" Tractor Tires with Calcium Chloride to add weight for traction.

Its Cheap, doesn't freeze, and it weighs more than plain water. Something like 11 pounds per gallon.

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tvb
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Post Sun. Dec. 28, 2008 5:06 am

The people who took the ash have a 1/2 mile long gravel driveway. I don't think they are concerned about corroding the stones. I spread a little bit on my blacktop driveway without serious harm also and once the driveway is clear, the next rain or big meltdown just washes it away into the street.

Calcium chloride - it just happens the regional NJ edition of the NYTimes has an article about that stuff today. Here they use it just prior to dumping the salt on the road to make the salt bounce less. The DPW folks they interviewed said they lose about 40% of the salt they dump to "bounce" and the liquid fixes that. Road salt prices have skyrocketed this year which likely explains the interest in the ash from my rural neighbors.

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morrisfamily3098
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Post Mon. Dec. 29, 2008 9:20 am

mgambuzza wrote:Is there anyone here from the Syracuse, NY area? Can ash be dropped off in the regular trash? I have done some searches on the internet and some municipalities allow for ash disposal as long as it is in a separate bag. Syracuse DPWs web site really doesn't say anything about ash of any kind (although they do state about dog and cat waste).
I live out in the country in caz I dump them at the end of my drive way so when it snows the plow trucks speard them out evenly dow the road. I have never checked out wether or not you can dump them anywhere.

test_fire
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Post Tue. Dec. 30, 2008 8:30 am

According to the OCRRA (Onondaga County Resource Recovery Agency) website wood ash cannot be brought to their transfer stations. I assume all county waste goes to one of their transfer stations. It does not say anything about coal ash. It does add that wood ash can be brought to the Seneca Meadows landfill in Waterloo or the Camillus landfill in Camillus.

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Post Tue. Dec. 30, 2008 9:41 am

I have a friend that is a retired regional maint. director for penndot. He told me that when they first started useing the liquid calcium they were busy as all get-out replaceing the galvanized guide rails, so since then they modified the solution some but it`s still bad. A lot worse than rock salt. The coal ash solidifies pretty well so doesn`t fly around as much, snow & rain would dilute any acid pretty quick, I`ve seen vegetation growing out of it- salt will kill just about anything. I had to replace my metal brake lines on my truck because of rust & my mechanic was buying it by the roll to make up his own because he was useing so much & on all different makes of cars. I think I`d rather take my chances with coal ash.
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Post Tue. Dec. 30, 2008 2:39 pm

I bag mine up in contractor bags and put it out for the general trash pickup. About 40-45#/bag. The ties don't hold so I twist and knot the top. They take 'em. And I tip the guys at this time of year. ;)

Test-fire, remember that wood ash and coal ash are two completely different animals. Wood ash is slightly alkaline, people actually use it in their gardens to "sweeten" the soil and for the other beneficial elements that help replenish forests after forest fires. Coal ash, OTOH, is pretty acidic and not nice stuff at all by the accounts I've seen. So the county website advice on wood ash really can't be assumed to apply to coal ash. (But I'd have to say it sure doesn't bode well on the "chemical merits.")

Technically, though, that website is good for you. If it isn't listed as a prohibited item, I don't see how you've violated any law. Hell, cigar ashes aren't prohibited, either. So this may be one of those many areas in life where it may pay NOT to ask too many questions. 8-)

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Post Sat. Jan. 03, 2009 12:42 am

Looks like fly ash isn't meant to be mixed with water and used in place of peanut butter... :roll:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/02/tennessee.sludge/


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coalkirk
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Post Sat. Jan. 03, 2009 6:49 am

No where here did anyone advocate eating flyash. And no, a billion gallons of water and flyash is not a good way to keep your driveway from being slippery. However a light sprinkling of coal ash will do the job nicely and not harm the environment. Hope you had a nice new years.

(no lawyers were harmed in the making of this posting :) )
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Post Sat. Jan. 03, 2009 8:18 am

stockingfull wrote:Looks like fly ash isn't meant to be mixed with water and used in place of peanut butter... :roll:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/02/tennessee.sludge/
"However, samples of the fly ash scooped up along roadsides and river banks show elevated levels of arsenic that normally would trigger an EPA response, Sims said. "These are levels that we consider harmful to humans," he said. But the EPA is not responding because the TVA is taking action to fix the problem, he added.

Arsenic is a natural element found in soil and minerals, but exposure to it can cause sickness, the National Institutes of Health says."

I notice it says nothing about what the actual "elevated level" is, it looks like scare hype to me and it seems to be working. If it were so dangerous, where are the numbers? Arsenic is a heavy metal, one of many we come in contact with every day

Stockingfull, have a sample of your drinking water run through a competent labrotory. I'll bet you won't want to drink it after it gets a full analysis. And test the peanut butter for rat feces too while your at it.

For those concerned, more here: http://inchemsearch.ccohs.ca/inchem/jsp/search/se ... earch.y=22
stockingfull wrote:Coal ash, OTOH, is pretty acidic and not nice stuff at all by the accounts I've seen.
The data I have seen indicates coal ash to be highly alkaline, with a pH range in the 10.0+ zone. The SO produces an acid, but that is in the flue gases and not present in the ash IIRC.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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Post Sat. Jan. 03, 2009 1:20 pm

coaledsweat wrote:The data I have seen indicates coal ash to be highly alkaline, with a pH range in the 10.0+ zone. The SO produces an acid*, but that is in the flue gases and not present in the ash IIRC.
* - Yeah, like sulfuric acid, perhaps? :roll:

Are you saying that the ash, when moistened, is not acidic? :poke: Because, whatever the literature says, that's gonna send me out for some litmus paper.

Really, though, we should make some news here. If we know better than the EPA and the MSM, i.e., that coal ash is good for you, or at least no worse than the dirt in your garden, we shouldn't be belly-aching about it here. We should be getting that story out there right now, because this TN thing is having an effect on public opinion, and it ain't good for our side.

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Post Sat. Jan. 03, 2009 2:27 pm

stockingfull wrote:* - Yeah, like sulfuric acid, perhaps? :roll:

Are you saying that the ash, when moistened, is not acidic? :poke: Because, whatever the literature says, that's gonna send me out for some litmus paper.

If we know better than the EPA and the MSM, i.e., that coal ash is good for you, or at least no worse than the dirt in your garden, we shouldn't be belly-aching about it here.
Well get yourself some litmus paper and when you are done testing, let me know what you find out. If you can turn an alkali into an acid by adding water we need to get started on turning lead into gold right away.

Where did anyone say coal ash is good for you? EPA/DEP and the MSM all have an agenda, and you and I are not on that list. I deal with the first two on a regular basis, I'm not impressed.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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Post Sat. Jan. 03, 2009 3:04 pm

coaledsweat wrote: The data I have seen indicates coal ash to be highly alkaline, with a pH range in the 10.0+ zone. The SO produces an acid, but that is in the flue gases and not present in the ash IIRC.
This is what I understood also. And that coal ash has been used as a soil amendment for highly acidic soil but should be used sparingly as toxicity problems may occur.
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Post Sat. Jan. 03, 2009 3:29 pm

I live in Pennsylvania so I guess that makes PA DEP the "Gods" of ash disposal within the commonwealth. Search their website http://www.depweb.state.pa.us/dep/site/default.asp and you can find quite a lot of information regarding coal ash disposal. Much has to do with using it in mine reclamation. I always assumed coal ash was acidic, I guess because of acid rain and the corrosiveness of it but everything I read says the opposite. A strong alkaline is corrosive too, think lye.
I am attaching a document from DEP regarding coal ash disposal for anyone’s viewing pleasure. I don't think it is copyrighted after all my taxes paid for it.
DEP_563-2112-225.pdf
(17.7 KiB) Downloaded 139 times
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Post Wed. Jan. 07, 2009 9:41 am

Has anyone tried to fill a sand/salt spreader with coal ash?

I thought of getting one and doing this, but I thought the ash might cake up when it gets wet?

Thoughts?


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