Making a External DHW Coil

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
User avatar
Sting
Member
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon. Feb. 25, 2008 4:24 pm
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG
Location: Lower Fox Valley = Wisconsin

Post Thu. Dec. 17, 2009 3:05 pm

yep

Just like Indiana Jones --- I was named after the dog! :lol:

so your in the basement with this -- OK water damage is less likely

but -- and again there is "that" word --- Most folks have their humidifier in the living space. If close to the kitchen or handy -- I can just see some poor boob taking this advice / contraption to heart --- and then causing jillions of dollars of damage to the dwelling.
When you turn your boiler on -Does it return the favor?
I have finally lost my mind. Don't bother to return it. It wasn't working properly anyway!


User avatar
bug512
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri. Nov. 20, 2009 1:13 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K
Location: Washington, NJ
Contact:

Post Thu. Dec. 17, 2009 4:15 pm

The humidifier makes little difference if it is in the basement of living area, personally I do not like the sight of it nor the noise from the fans .. so in the basement it is.
Yep, there are a lot of "what if" in life. Think about the plumbing in your bathroom and kitchen, or how about the hoses that go to the washing machine. All of that could fail and do lots of damage.

Risk vs. Reward

User avatar
bug512
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri. Nov. 20, 2009 1:13 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K
Location: Washington, NJ
Contact:

Post Thu. Dec. 17, 2009 10:22 pm

Pictures of heat shield below. I made the shield from the pieces left over form the baseboard heat that I purchased for the coil.
Image
Image
Water temperatures after almost one week of the system running.
Image

User avatar
4tees
Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue. Jun. 24, 2008 8:53 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II with hot air jacket
Location: Lehigh Valley

Post Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 9:22 am

Great job! When will you begin marketing "Gene's external dhw coil"?

Did you put together a parts list and source?
Why the expansion tank on the cold water inlet?
What made you decide to go with the pump vs thermosyphon?
Is your pump set up to run continously? How is that wired?
Have you been tracking input/output temps throughout the day? ie before/after morning showers, etc. How low do temps go after morning hot water usage?

I have been thinking about the hykoil since I got my Hyfire last year but really don't want to cut those holes in the side of the stove. I have a huge boiler for my steam heating system that heats our hot water. Have not run boiler for heating yet this year. Hope to be able to bypass the boiler completely and save that fuel oil.

Thanks,,,,
**Fall 2008**Got fill of fuel oil...$4.54/gallon...$850 bill...OUCH!! Bring on the Coal!!
**Winter 2008-09** Burned 1000 gallons less fuel oil for season...Return on Investment for my LL Hyfire II - 1 year!!

Bob

User avatar
bug512
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri. Nov. 20, 2009 1:13 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K
Location: Washington, NJ
Contact:

Post Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 10:03 am

4tees wrote:Great job! When will you begin marketing "Gene's external dhw coil"?

Did you put together a parts list and source?
Lowes/Home Depot/Grainger
7 - 3/4" Copper Sweat T's
2 - 3/4" Brass Sweat Unions
3 - 3/4" Copper Sweat 90's
1 - 3/4" Copper Sweat 45
3 - 3/4" Copper Sweat to NPT Female adapter
4 - 3/4" Copper Sweat to NPT Male adapter
1 - 3/4" male to 1/4" female reducing bushing
1 - 1/4" automatic air vent
1 - 006 series Taco Bronze pump (Grainger)
1 - 9' cord (for pump)
1 - 3/4" Gate valve Bronze
2 - 10' X 3/4" L copper pipe
2 - 3/4" Brass T's NPT
2 - 3/4" Brass drain valves
1 - 3/4" X 3" brass nipple
2 - 3/4" close nipple
2 - Panel Mount Thermometers - Grainger 5XL18
3 - lengths 3/4" pipe insulation
3 - 3' lengths of fin tube.

This is what is needed for the coil to tempering tank installation, not getting your cold water supply to the tank and the tempered water to your already existing water heating source.

Why the expansion tank on the cold water inlet?
I knew there would be expansion due to the fact when you expel the hot water supply and replace it with cold water would expand over time, I knew the tank is needed. The expansion tank is always located on the cold water inlet on a domestic water heating application.

What made you decide to go with the pump vs thermosyphon?
The reason for the pump is that the location from the coil to tempering tank is around 10' in pipe length, I am not a fan on piping being "pitched", and this will also serve when I use this same system for a solar panel that I am going to use during the summer months.

Is your pump set up to run continously? How is that wired?
Continuous for now. Wired with a 14 gage cord to a outlet.

Have you been tracking input/output temps throughout the day? ie before/after morning showers, etc. How low do temps go after morning hot water usage?
I have, it depends on how hard the stove is running. It is 13 outside so the stove is really going and so my temperatures this morning were in the 120's range, after two showers we were in the low 90's
It was milder out the other day and I observed temperatures in the high 80's


I have been thinking about the hykoil since I got my Hyfire last year but really don't want to cut those holes in the side of the stove. I have a huge boiler for my steam heating system that heats our hot water. Have not run boiler for heating yet this year. Hope to be able to bypass the boiler completely and save that fuel oil.

Thanks,,,,

User avatar
WNY
Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon. Nov. 14, 2005 8:40 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon
Location: Cuba, NY
Contact:

Post Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 10:06 am

Nice!

Here's a good article on Hot water expansion on hot water tanks.

Most people may not have back flow/pressure regulators from the city water (Or wells) and the expansion usually will go back in the cold line (hence that is usually where the expansion tanks are located, since your hot is blocked by your faucets.
Last edited by WNY on Sat. Apr. 01, 2017 2:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: <removed dead link>
- Dave
Hyfire I & Keystoker 90K heating an 1890 Victorian
- Amsoil Authorized T1 Certified Dealer

User avatar
paulinpoland
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed. Dec. 16, 2009 3:09 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Welded metal box
Location: Polandia, the Home of Snow

Post Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 7:13 pm

I wandered over to this topic, and I started thinking about catching heat for household water. Referring to my simplified diagram, could this be an option? A water tank seam welded around the flue pipe? Has anyone done this? Or is it a stupid idea?

If not, would everything have to be made of stainless steel? Maybe the flue pipe would need to be shrouded by a second pipe, to avoid direct contact with the water?

It's cold outside,here......I'm middle-aged....my mind starts to wander....I'll go to bed when it gets back :) .
Attachments
tank.JPG
Whims and fancies, the fuel of life! ..........alternative signature: It's coz am from Manchester...don't blame me, blame the rain!

User avatar
Poconoeagle
Member
Posts: 6403
Joined: Sat. Nov. 08, 2008 7:26 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska
Location: Tobyhanna PA

Post Fri. Dec. 18, 2009 11:15 pm

mee thinks the stack temp is to low for adequate heat transfer sideways into the water ....

maybe if there were turbulator tubes sideways???

but then ash traps.....
"Do it Right the First Time" dont leave it for the next guy, as YOU may be the Next guy!!


User avatar
WNY
Member
Posts: 5849
Joined: Mon. Nov. 14, 2005 8:40 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon
Location: Cuba, NY
Contact:

Post Sat. Dec. 19, 2009 6:44 am

Your pipe may not be hot enough, if burning wood, maybe, but coal the stack temps are usually much lower.
You could also just wrap some flexible copper tubing around the pipe without having to build a big jacket.
- Dave
Hyfire I & Keystoker 90K heating an 1890 Victorian
- Amsoil Authorized T1 Certified Dealer

User avatar
bug512
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri. Nov. 20, 2009 1:13 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K
Location: Washington, NJ
Contact:

Post Sat. Dec. 19, 2009 8:03 am

Question ? If you lower stack temperature (by taking heat away), do you loose some draft?

And to the original poster, how hot is the stack temperatures?

I like the idea of wrapping the stove pipe with soft copper. I think I would go with 3/8", then insulate around the pipe.
There is also a heat conductive cement that you could use around the copper to pipe to increase heat transfer. This is used in industrial applications for steam tracing process lines.

Along with that throttling valve, T&P valve and temperature gauges to look at the performance.

User avatar
Adamiscold
Member
Posts: 1117
Joined: Fri. Feb. 29, 2008 7:09 am
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School
Location: Winchendon,Ma

Post Sat. Dec. 19, 2009 8:31 am

My outside stack temperature is less then 200* so I really don't see how much heat can be taken from it to warm water and it would cool down your stack pipe which in turn will effect your draft. I just don't see how spending the time or money would be worth it when compared to what you will get out of it. It would seem to be worth more to do a setup on the outside of your stove like Gene did if you have no plans on cutting into your stove then it would to just throw money away on trying to steal heat from your stack pipe.
Adam

http://www.homepower.com <-- Great magazine.

User avatar
bug512
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri. Nov. 20, 2009 1:13 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K
Location: Washington, NJ
Contact:

Post Sat. Dec. 19, 2009 9:47 pm


User avatar
paulinpoland
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed. Dec. 16, 2009 3:09 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Welded metal box
Location: Polandia, the Home of Snow

Post Sat. Dec. 19, 2009 9:53 pm

Noted...

.......the thing is, I have no experience at all of modern heating systems. In my experience, flue pipes get exceedingly hot. Obviously, with baros and all the rest, more heat is contained and less escapes via the flue.

Learning all the time...thanks! I'm 53, but I still enjoy naivety :) .
Whims and fancies, the fuel of life! ..........alternative signature: It's coz am from Manchester...don't blame me, blame the rain!

User avatar
bug512
Member
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri. Nov. 20, 2009 1:13 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Stoker 90K
Location: Washington, NJ
Contact:

Post Wed. Oct. 26, 2011 9:22 am

Just a update.. going on the third heating season with this domestic coil setup and all has been going very well. The original (free) storage tank started to leak and was replaced with a newer (craigslist special) 80 gallon tank.

If you are feeling handy and want to heat up some water then try this project.

Good luck and if you have any questions please ask.

User avatar
EarthWindandFire
Member
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sat. Dec. 18, 2010 12:02 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Other Heating: Oil Furnace and Kerosene Heaters.
Location: Connecticut

Post Wed. Oct. 26, 2011 10:08 am

I have a 30 gallon water heater fired by natural gas. Last week I called Yankee Gas and had them mail me a statement for the past 18 months of my bills and usage. So, in a given year I spend about 400 dollars on natural gas. Now, for me anyway, coal is not the least expensive method for heating DHW, certainly not during the warm months.

So what do I do? Call Yankee Gas and have them turn off my gas from April to October? I'm sure there's a service disconnection and connection fee.

The real reason that I plan on using the stove to heat my dhw is for the dehumidifying effect on my basement which is very very damp and wet during the summer.

For those that have a stove with a Coal-trol, do I make chenges in the MIN and MAX so that the stove runs at a constant firing rate and maintain enough draft during hot weather? Say approximately a MIN of 8 and a MAX of 12 ans set the day and night temps at 90 degrees?
Mark

Inflation is the Grim Reaper to prosperity.
Printing money without a gold standard is the crime of counterfeiting.
The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Mr. McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
Si vis paceum, parabellum.


Post Reply

Return to “Coal Bins, Chimneys, CO Detectors & Thermostats”