Did I Do a Bad Thing? LOL.

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
byrdy11
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Posts: 51
Joined: Tue. Oct. 24, 2006 3:02 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 90
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post Fri. Dec. 29, 2006 7:57 am

Ok, you guys are probably going to laugh.....I noticed some (a small amount) of smoke coming out around the seam on the back/top edge of the stove. I guess there is a gasket there (all the way around the top of the stove)? I have a keystoker. Anyway, I sealed it up initially with that red high temp silicone and it stopped it-temporarily. My dad laughed at me and told me I should have the gasket replaced, but, then he stopped laughing when he realized the stove would have to be moved and disconnected from it's spot to do it and it would kind of be a major ordeal that he wasnt keen on at the time. The leak stopped-there was no smell upstairs, so I shut the cellar door and basically forgot about it-pretty typical of me. Over the holidays it finally broke through the silicone and was leaking again and I could smell it upstairs. I got this bug up my a$$ and got out my furnace cement and ran a good bead along the entire gasket line in the back after turning the stove to idle. I let it cure for two days and now I am slowly warming it up again. Was this a terrible idea? Maybe I should just turn it off and get it fixed? Ugh. It looks like crap too, but, I don't really care about that-it's in my cellar. Have any of you ever done that?
:?


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coaledsweat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Fri. Dec. 29, 2006 8:26 am

That is what furnace cement is for. Just keep your eye on the repair and keep it up to snuff, when the heating season is over you can make a proper repair.

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Richard S.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite
Location: NEPA

Post Fri. Dec. 29, 2006 9:11 am

I'm not going to say it's a good idea or bad one... :wink: Just make sure you have CO detectors.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

byrdy11
Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue. Oct. 24, 2006 3:02 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 90
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post Fri. Dec. 29, 2006 9:27 am

I forgot to mention that I have CO detectors all over the house. Hopefully the repair will work. I wont know until I get home today....just turned up the heat this morning. It was interesting....I started applying the cement to where the leak seemed the worst and the smoke plume just moved down the seam....so I ended up doing the whole seam along the back of the stove to get it to stop, working from the inside to the outside. I hope it works.

red ash
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Location: Schuylkill County

Post Fri. Dec. 29, 2006 1:22 pm

byrdy11, refresh my weak memory as to which model Keystoker you are running. Is there any gasket material visible along the seam or is the seam a weld bead painted the color of the stove? :)
Keystoker 90

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LsFarm
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Posts: 7385
Joined: Sun. Nov. 20, 2005 8:02 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland
Location: Michigan

Post Fri. Dec. 29, 2006 8:43 pm

Hi Byrdy, I'm concerned that you had smells [flue gasses] getting into the house. Was the fire really low and the outside temps quite warm?? The only way you should have gasses leaking out of the stove would be if it did not have a draft pulling them up the chimney.

Did you have bathroom exhaust fans, clothes dryers venting and hot water tanks venting to the outdoors putting a strong negative draw on the house that reversed the coal stove's chimney draft??

I would like to see a photo of your stove top, unless it has bolts or other fasteners holding the top on, it is unlikely to have a gasket. It should have a weld all the way around the top!! It should not be leaking!. I don't know what flavor your stove is, so please let us know.

Greg L

.
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

byrdy11
Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue. Oct. 24, 2006 3:02 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 90
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post Tue. Jan. 02, 2007 11:35 am

I think it is a weld bead! My dad was calling it a gasket but I think it is as you wrote red ash. I think the model is 89. 89 or 90. I cant remember. The paperwork is at home. The chimney cement seems to be working, but, now some smoke is coming out the side, but not bad. I do only see it when it is warm and the stove isnt working very hard-like now. I've also noticed this white colored material coming out along the seams in some places. What the heck is that? I don't think it's sulfur, but it is some kind of build up. ARgh. I checked the chimney and associated places where ash could build up and it seems ok. I probably should let it go out today or tomorrow and clean the stove again with my shop vac. Lots of ash builds up in the bottom back corners where there are vents. What does this mean? That the stove seam will have to be re-done?
:cry:

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coaledsweat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Tue. Jan. 02, 2007 12:08 pm

What is coming out is more than likley ash, very fine particles. To repair the weld you will need to grind the crack out in a "V" and go beyond each end of it with the V a bout a half an inch or so. You can do it in place if you can get a small 110 volt welder into where it is, a MIG would work fine or you could ARC weld it. Some rental places have small wire feeds with powder coated wire which would most likley work well too. If you can't weld find someone who can or practice on some scrap before attempting the repair.

How old is the unit, maybe the manufacturer will fix it.

I would think you don't have enough draft if a small crack is blowing out ash, is it close to the stack?


red ash
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Location: Schuylkill County

Post Tue. Jan. 02, 2007 2:54 pm

byrdy11, check out WNY's stove in the pictures section and see if your stove looks like dave's. I suppose it is possible for a weld to break on a Keystoker but have a hard time imagining how. If the stove is a 90 or 105 the only seems in the area of your leak should be a weld bead around the two sides and across the back above the hopper. The back of the stove should have a weld running down each side. If you have exhaust leaking on the back and sides perhaps the leak is somewhere lower on the stove and flowing up and around the stove. Keystokers are essentially a heavy plate steel box that is fully welded. The only gasket material used is on doors and some openings used for components such as the grate. Is it possible that the chimney connection is leaking and exhaust if flowing up and around the stove? :)
Keystoker 90

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jpen1
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Posts: 614
Joined: Sat. Nov. 04, 2006 4:46 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: LL110
Coal Size/Type: Rice/ Buck
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler
Location: Bloomsburg, PA

Post Tue. Jan. 02, 2007 8:15 pm

If you have a cracked weld it would be best to repair it as soon as possible. Continued heating and cooling of the steel will only make it bigger. It is very possble to have a weld leak in carbon steel especially if was welded with a flux-core or stick setup. Porosity and slag contamination are quite common with these types of welds. I would strongly recommend getting someone who's an experienced welder to fix this. The seam will have to be ground in a v or beveled shape to get adequate penetration. Also if a 110 volt welder is used it will take 2 or 3 passes and will require grinding and chippnig of the slag between passes if a stick or flux-core unit are used.

byrdy11
Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue. Oct. 24, 2006 3:02 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 90
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post Thu. Jan. 04, 2007 6:11 am

Here are some pictures. Hopefully you can see the repair mess I made.
Attachments
repair230.JPG
repair30.JPG
frontview.JPG

byrdy11
Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue. Oct. 24, 2006 3:02 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 90
Coal Size/Type: rice

Post Thu. Jan. 04, 2007 6:13 am

Here is a nother general picture of the stove. I think I will have to have some welding done on it. My paperwork says I have a two year warranty on the stove body. I am not sure that applies to leaking seams. My dad is a really good welder, but, he wont be back until spring. I'll have to send him the link to read what you all wrote about it.
Attachments
topleftside30.JPG

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LsFarm
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Joined: Sun. Nov. 20, 2005 8:02 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland
Location: Michigan

Post Thu. Jan. 04, 2007 7:45 am

This has been mentioned, are you sure the leak you see is at the junction of the back and the top of the stove body? You could have gasses backing up from you stoker feed and coming out of the bottom of the hopper rising up between the hopper and stove. The residue from the gasses could then show up at the junction of the top and back of the stove.

I'm sure you don't want to, but I'd scrape off the furnace cement, remove the hopper, and see if there is evidence of the hopper leaking gasses at the stoker. Then with the hopper off you should be able to get a good angle to look closely at the weld. If it is cracked it should be evident.

If it is cracked it should be covered under warantee. If I made the stove I'd cover a cracked weld for many years.

Greg L
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

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coalkirk
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: anthracite/rice coal
Location: Forest Hill MD

Post Thu. Jan. 04, 2007 8:44 am

From your pictures, it looks like you have alot of corrrosion at that area. Do you have a cap on the chimney? Water from somewhere has been getting to that metal to cause all of that rust.

red ash
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon. Oct. 23, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Schuylkill County

Post Thu. Jan. 04, 2007 10:07 am

byrdy, that stove is called a Koker and Keystoker calls it a warm air furnace. That seam where you have the cement is definitely a weld seam and not a gasket seem. There is a gasket at the bottom of the hopper where the grate unit sits in the stove. It is possible that you may have a leak at that area and the exhaust is running up between the back wall of the stove and the hopper. It would tend to deposit at the lip on the top. Get a flash light and turn the lights out in the room, run the stove on full burn and shine the flashlight at the area under the hopper. You are looking for a grey or white discharge. If the leak is small it may be hard to detect. Look for a ripple in the light beam and try to determine weather there is a stronger exhaust smell from that area.
Keystoker 90


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