My HW Coils Are Looking Rough After Summer in Damp Basement

This forum is for common products and questions such as chimney installations, CO detectors, coal bin designs and a variety of other general topics that do not fit into the other forums.
CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 4427
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 7:31 am

There is a first time for everything...
Did you not point him to the pictures in the forum...
Dated Aug 29...
The cleaned pictures look like the coils were mostly brushed...
But the pictures with all the crud on them...
Would have told me you were an exception...
They should make up an 'extreme coil set' for your 'testing lab'...
For free...
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.


User avatar
wlape3
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Posts: 2553
Joined: Mon. Jan. 12, 2009 7:38 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Auger
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Propane
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Location: Delanson, NY transitioning to SE Mass

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 7:35 am

"I wonder if I have some stray electrical current running through my plumbing? Using the coils as an anode, on top of moist coal ash??? Anything is possible in this house! "

Always a possibility. particularly in older homes. I would think it would attack some of the milder steel in the firebox first though.
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo Possum

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SMITTY
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Posts: 11915
Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
Location: West-Central Mass

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 9:15 am

CapeCoaler wrote:There is a first time for everything...
Did you not point him to the pictures in the forum...
Dated Aug 29...
The cleaned pictures look like the coils were mostly brushed...
But the pictures with all the crud on them...
Would have told me you were an exception...
They should make up an 'extreme coil set' for your 'testing lab'...
For free...
I hear ya! Was hoping for a free replacement, but I had already sent him the same pics. He still didn't believe me... or at least acted like he didn't. I figured it was partially my fault anyway for not removing them Immediately & cleaning, being the honest guy that I am.. :roll: Figured a wipe of the ash was good 'nuff, but you know what they say about hindsight!

Just out of curiosity I'm going to test the pipes with my multimeter later on, if I remember. There are a bunch of ground clamps on the plumbing -- which would make sense if I had public water ... but I'm on a well with plastic pipe from the well to the house. Unless they figured the water would conduct down into the well? Who knows - part of the joy of owning a pre-regulation home! :lol:
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ...Such laws make things worse
for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to
encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with
greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On
Crimes and Punishment."

CapeCoaler
Member
Posts: 4427
Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
Location: Cape Cod, MA

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 10:00 am

You should always have some grounding rod...
New public water supplies do not always have metal pipe either...
Lots of Cape homes have the ground still going to the old metal well pipe...
You should see some cross connecting grounding cable between water, electric and earth...
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

User avatar
SMITTY
Member
Posts: 11915
Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
Location: West-Central Mass

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 2:55 pm

The coils are here, but I'm not expecting much of a difference due to the material used. Definitely NOT 316 or 316L- it's 304. Magnet will have a very slight pull to it on the straight sections, but noticeable pull where the tight bends are unlike regular 304. Have a look .....
Coil #2 10-27-09 (2).JPG
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ...Such laws make things worse
for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to
encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with
greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On
Crimes and Punishment."

User avatar
wlape3
Member
Posts: 2553
Joined: Mon. Jan. 12, 2009 7:38 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Auger
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Propane
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Location: Delanson, NY transitioning to SE Mass

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 5:48 pm

They probably used 304L because there are less problems with work hardening than with 316L. As long as it's kept dry it should be ok. In the chemical industry they use schedule 80 carbon steel pipe for dry chlorine gas with no problems. If it gets wet you have to use nickel alloys.
"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo Possum

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jpen1
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Posts: 614
Joined: Sat. Nov. 04, 2006 4:46 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: LL110
Coal Size/Type: Rice/ Buck
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler
Location: Bloomsburg, PA

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 6:59 pm

Smitty you need to passivate that stainless before use or it will do the same as before. 304 stainless steel is not even mildly magnetic by itself. The reason your magnet pulls to the coils is a by product of hilkoils rusty bending dies. If there dies have rust on them that rust will chalk off and im pregnate the stainless during the forming process especially at the site of the bends, which can and will cause rust. Here is a product that should work for youhttp://www.theruststore.com/CitriSurf-77-Plus---22-oz-Bo ... 37C64.aspx. Putting a piece of brown Scotch Brite on a bolt with flat washers and going over it before the passivation as it suggests is also a good idea as well as it will remove alot of the contamination alone.
Last edited by jpen1 on Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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009to090
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Posts: 5104
Joined: Fri. Jan. 30, 2009 10:02 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice
Location: Warrenton, NC

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 7:11 pm

Well, 50% is better than 0%. :mad: But people reading this forum will keep this thread in mind when they goto order their own coil.
At least you'll have your heat back on soon. :D :cheers:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


User avatar
SMITTY
Member
Posts: 11915
Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
Location: West-Central Mass

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 8:14 pm

Thanks for all the info guys! :cheers:

I appreciate the link jpen1, but my wallet has taken a massive hit this week. Gonna be tough paying down what I've racked up this month. I picked the wrong time to buy a new generator! But I need it, as our power supply here has gone back 100 years in reliability.... then I mashed up my new truck to the tune of $2K, & now have to drop close to $300 for another coil... :roll: Thank God for credit cards....

Is there anything cheaper out there that might be sold at Lowe's or a hardware store? I'd probably give that a shot if it's cheap enough. I'm not too sure something that simple will keep this from happening in this torture-test-lab-basement! :shock: :lol:

I think next spring I'll immediately remove them while they are still hot, remove the ash WITHOUT water (not that I did that before, but just so it never has a chance to start...), give them a nice heavy coat of LPS-3 & store them upstairs with the chimney connector pipe -- which is on it's last season for the same thing!

One things for sure: I think I'll find another source for my next coils! :|
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ...Such laws make things worse
for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to
encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with
greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On
Crimes and Punishment."

User avatar
jpen1
Member
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat. Nov. 04, 2006 4:46 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: LL110
Coal Size/Type: Rice/ Buck
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler
Location: Bloomsburg, PA

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 9:09 pm

Smitty the brown scotch brite which many stores that sell auto body products should have would help temendously and is pretty cheap. Use the scotch bright to shine it up really good and that will remove most of the carbon steel contamination. As far as the passivation acid goes it is a mixture of nitric and citric acid. I don't know of any big box store items that will do the job for less. The problem is nitric acid usually isn't an off the shelf item because of how badly it reacts with human tissue especially the human eye. If you would get that in your eye don't even bother flushing it because you are already blind in the affected eye.
Last edited by jpen1 on Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
SMITTY
Member
Posts: 11915
Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
Location: West-Central Mass

Post Tue. Oct. 27, 2009 9:13 pm

I gotcha ... I might have to hit the wife up for some cash! :fear: :notworthy: :nono: :funny:
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ...Such laws make things worse
for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to
encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with
greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On
Crimes and Punishment."

TimV
Member
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 10:06 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Older Ashley Cabinet ( pre US Stove gobble up)
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Energy King 480 EK
Coal Size/Type: Warm weather smaller coal. Cold weather larger coal.
Other Heating: Oil Furnace Backup when repairs are needed
Stove/Furnace Make: Energy King Furnace
Stove/Furnace Model: 480 EK
Location: Glens Falls NY Area

Post Sun. Nov. 22, 2009 8:18 am

Question may already been asked...
Did this unit go to a tank which feeds your existing hotwater tank?
After the heating season did cold water still flow thru the coil and then to domestic tank?.
I think that might explain the nasty looking mess left on the pipe being caused by condensation wetting the layer of corroisve ash and water having a reactionafter being left all summer to be in a dark moist place .
Maybe if it pipe was scoured down after season or water re-routed directly thru domestic
tank for the summer....Sure does not look like a stainless pipe of the original picture
I had a guy tell me that coal dust and fly ash were bad news on metal roofing and I have a wide rusty streak running down inline with my stainless insulated chimney...I guess he was right but inside my pipe looks ok.

User avatar
SMITTY
Member
Posts: 11915
Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
Location: West-Central Mass

Post Sun. Nov. 22, 2009 10:40 pm

Here is an explanation of my setup in another related thread: Interesting Info for Those Looking to Purchase Hilkoil Coils
The laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are
neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ...Such laws make things worse
for the assaulted and better for the assailants, they serve rather to
encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with
greater confidence than an armed man."

- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On
Crimes and Punishment."

kzx11
Member
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon. Oct. 26, 2009 3:45 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Stoker C&D Stoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Kast Consol,Mini Stoker
Location: Montoursville,Pa.

Post Tue. Nov. 24, 2009 10:34 am

Bull S<>> LIFETIME IS LIFETIME..........Hilkoil will not get a Dime from me or as many people as I can tell and point to this thread. They had the chance to make it Right and Failed to do so!!
I guess they are already makin too much money and don't need our Bus.

When I run into people Like this, That try to put one in ME like E-bay or elsewhere. I find a free website builder,Like freeservers and builder a nice little website all about them and how well they took care of me<>Along with pictures and all. I tell the truth The whole truth. I then send them a Link to the site,Stating I would be more than Happy to post a Link to the site in there feedback,Craigslist and any other forum that is related. It has worked very well for me~~~~~!!!!

Jim :mad: :mad: :mad:
Oil SUCKS Coal RULES!!

murphyslaw
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri. Nov. 20, 2009 8:11 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: Model 82
Location: South Central, Alaska

Post Tue. Nov. 24, 2009 11:19 am

Instead of using wd-40 next season use Fluid Film. If this stuff can keep my snow plow from rusting, I put it on everything.


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