LL Top Vent Pioneer - MAX Output?

A Coal stoker furnace or stove controls most operations including automatically feeding the coal. They are quite similar to any conventional oil and gas units and easily operated for extended periods of time. They commonly use rice coal but may use larger sizes like buckwheat. They can be used as primary heat, supplementary heat or have a dual set up with your existing oil/gas furnace.
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Floydman89
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 10:13 am

Looking for some info.. advise..

My Parents have the LL Top Vent Pioneer . .bought New Winter 08.
They have it in the finished Basement of a Raised Ranch. .sq footage = 2,000 Total.
1,000 Basement / 1,000 upstairs .. ( 2 of the bedrooms upstairs are closed off)

The Temps here in Central NEW YORK have been Very cold...
The house was built in the 70's .. so I'd say it was insullated Good.

Most of this winter .. they have had the upstairs at 70deg..
and the down around 75-76. - But with the night time temps dipping down close to zero..
In the morning.. The temps upstairs drop down to 62 .. and downstairs around 70.
They had the settings factory at .. MAX 40.. .. We have over the last week. bumped that by 2's..
and are now MAX 50 ... There is still 2" or more of Ash on the tray- not burning..
They have the Temp set to 92 deg on the thermstat..
This morning .. outside temp 7deg.
Downstairs is now 72 .. and Upstairs is 64..

How far can they go on the MAX setting??
They do have a Baro... not sure if its Set properly or not..
but the stove pipe is NOT that hot... I told him to pickup a Stove pipe therm today..


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gambler
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 12:05 pm

First of all set the coal-trol so that "max" is displayed and leave it there for about 1/2 hour or so then check to see how much ash is left on the grate. You must leave it in Max mode so that you take the t-stat out of the mix. You can keep bumping up the max setting 2 at a time and leave it for 1/2 hour or so until you reach the desired amount of ash at the end of the grate. Once you are satisfied you then page through the coal trol to get it off of "max" and let the t-stat take over controlling the heat output.
Take Care and God Bless
Rick

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WNY
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon
Location: Cuba, NY
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 12:15 pm

Yes, check the draft, you may be loosing some heat up the chimney if not calibrated correctly with a draft gauge.

Also, you can go up to about 1" of ash at the end of the grate, I pushed mine to less than that and almost hot coals falling off, so I can't go any farther without wasting coal. The front of the stove runs around 450+ degrees.

As Gambler said, you can keep bumping the max up by 2 and check it after an hour or so and make sure the Feed Rat=99%, you may have to set the temp up a quite a few degrees above the room to get it to max out.

I had to raise my Hyfire up to max. 48 and it is still doing all it can to keep up in the cold. I ran it FR=99 for 2 days straight maxed out!! That kept it around 67-69 upstairs.
- Dave
Hyfire I & Keystoker 90K heating an 1890 Victorian
- Amsoil Authorized T1 Certified Dealer

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Floydman89
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 2:28 pm

After setting the Max, and leaving it alone .. it goes back to the main screen.....
How do you get it in the MAX MODE?

Does it matter though? .. can we just keep increasing the Max mode ..
until we have about 1" of ash on the tray??..

I don't get this MAX thing?? .. is it just a safeguard???
If we set the t-stat to 75 ... will it matter if the MAX setting is at its MAX??
Is it saving it from having HOT COAL drop off the tray??
so if we have the T-sat on 92deg .. (which it is now) ... and max out the max setting (not sure how HIGH that goes)
will this thing start dumping hot coals??

They will be going on vacation next week ..... so if we are running it at a lower temp..
say 60 degs.. will I need to mess with this MAX value?? or do we set it one time . .and leave it??

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WNY
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon
Location: Cuba, NY
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 3:46 pm

Max is the max feed rate/Time without pushing hot coals off the end.

The Max is the Max on Time (sorta) of the stroke, I believe as you raise it up, it will feed for more time. Yes, each stove is slightly different for max feed.

Not sure if you can keep it in the MAX mode, but check your feed rate, but hitting the menu button once and scroll the next screen, it should say FR45, FR80 or FR99, etc..if it's reading FR99 when you have the thermostat turned up at least 5 or more degrees about room temp and the stove is feeding full and you still have a lot of ash at the end, then bump the MAX up a couple more points and come back and check the FeedRate, make sure it stays at FR99.

As long as you are NOT pushing hot coals off the end and you are running a FEED RATE of 99, you are at the MAX output of your MAX Setting. ie. 48, 50, etc...you can go as high as 99 on the MAX. Keep raising it until you have the desired 1" or so (more or less) of ash and that should be a good setting.

Yes, if you go TOO high on MAX, you will start dumping hot coals off the grate. It may take a while to get this "Dialed in" a few hours, but you shouldn't have to change it after that.

Once set, then the stove will NEVER go over that point for MAX output and not push hot coals off the grate (wasting fuel).
- Dave
Hyfire I & Keystoker 90K heating an 1890 Victorian
- Amsoil Authorized T1 Certified Dealer

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Floydman89
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 4:15 pm

Thanks for clearing that up!!! :D .. I think I understand.. 8-) . Planning on a visit tonite with them...
and I'll see if we can dial it in..

I'll bring my Stove Pipe Therm with me ... the Magnetic type...
If the stove pipe above the Baro is less than 300 deg ... would you think the Baro is set right?? or Close??
I know he has been burning about 50-60 pounds per day.. of Kimmel Rice.

My Stove pipe before the Baro hangs around 200deg.. for my Hitzer 30-95 . .burning Nut or pea..

Or Do I Really need to get a MANO-meter??
I figure it HEAT is going up the Chimney .. being wasted... it would read on the Pipe Term.. ???? :? :?

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WNY
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon
Location: Cuba, NY
Contact:

Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 5:26 pm

Hard to say on the pipe temp, they can vary quite a bit. Mine runs about 250 on the Iinside of the pipe AFTER the baro, just before the chimney breech. Probably about 350 before the baro, approx.

My stove can run 400-450 on teh front just above the door.

You really need a Draft Gauge (manometer) to dial in the Baro damper correctly. We have a loaner program on here if you want to contact the members that have it.
- Dave
Hyfire I & Keystoker 90K heating an 1890 Victorian
- Amsoil Authorized T1 Certified Dealer

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maurizziot
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 7:18 pm

a 1970's house is not insulated very well at all. awell insulated house will require about 35 BTU per sqft. your house will need
about 45 to 50 BTU per sqft. which translates to about 100,000 BTU required for the space. The Pioneer put out about 78,000 btu's. When the temp get colder's basic thermal dynamic's apply.


Paulie
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 7:27 pm

Set desired room temp to 90*, leave factory settings for everything but the max feed rate. Take max feed rate to 60,
Then go back to the round robin display. After 20 mins, see where
the ash line is. Go up or down on the feed rate by 2 until the burn line is an inch from the end of the grate. With the thermo
looking for 90*, the feed rate will be in max, so always go back to the round robin display after adjusting the feed rate.
A properly adjusted baro is key. Too much draft and the heat goes up the chimney, I set mine between .02-.03., never more
than .04. Good Luck!

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gambler
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 9:13 pm

Floydman89 wrote:After setting the Max, and leaving it alone .. it goes back to the main screen.....
How do you get it in the MAX MODE?


I think the new coal-trols work the same as the old ones. On my old one you push and hold the menu button for 5 seconds or so and the word setup appears release button. Then you push the menu button 4 times I think to scroll to "MAX" at this point you don't push the menu button any more and your coal-trol is locked into max feed rate. You now use the arrow keys to adjust the max. The T-stat should not return to the round robin or other displays as long as you do not push the menu button again. Once you have the max setting where you want it and stove is burning with 1" of ash at the end of the grate push the menu button and your coal-trol will now continue with the round robin display and then back to normal operating mode.
Take Care and God Bless
Rick

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Don_t_Say
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Post Mon. Jan. 26, 2009 11:11 pm

Why not make a manometer? All you need is a measuring tape, a piece of clear tubing, some water, and food coloring. :roll:

P.S. Just remember, that 1 inch must be marked off in tenths.
"Don't make the place in which you work too comfortable." Benjamin Franklin

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Yanche
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Post Tue. Jan. 27, 2009 10:57 am

You can not make a manometer capable of measuring flue draft. The measurement range and resolution needed is so small the traditional "U tube" water fluid manometer will show no movement. The commercial products use several techniques to provide the needed resolution, fluid with a different specific gravity, fluid with a wetting agent so it doesn't stick to the interior of the tubing, an inclined tube and a precision bored tube that depending on scale may be tapered.
Yanche
Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Stoker Boiler burning Anthracite Pea Coal

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Floydman89
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Post Wed. Jan. 28, 2009 9:18 am

Well .. for an update .. .we have the MAX set to 64..
Still have 1-1/2 of ash on the tray ... (we had the T-stat set to 90deg)

It Started to pour out the heat .. so we called that good..

The temp on the stack .. about the baro .. was just over 100deg..

The temp on the stove (above the glass door) .. .was 410deg..

I think the Baro Damper needs to be adjusted .. Its a cheaper one than I have..
it has no readings on the weight .. to tell what its set on...
I have the Fields control RC .. and I paid double what he paid..
but looks like you get what you pay for..
He was told by the people he bought the stove from .. to make the door light .. when you tap it..
also to put it as CLOSE to the stove as you can..
SO it sits .. right on top of the stove ... I thought it would be better to have at lease 1 section of pipe.. before the baro..
The chimney is a clay lined, concrete... Very good shape..

I'm thinking that the stove will run just fine now .. but if we get some more zero deg temps..
they will start to get cold again... if the draft pulls the heat out of the house..

They are happy with it .. and they are still only burning about 50lbs a day..
Way Cheaper than the propane bills Last year ... $400-$500 every 4 weeks.

mrboyd
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Post Thu. Jan. 29, 2009 12:57 pm

Make sure you have a carbon monoxide in the room for safetys sake until you can get an accurate measurement on the baro damper

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coal berner
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Post Thu. Jan. 29, 2009 1:22 pm

Floydman89 wrote:Well .. for an update .. .we have the MAX set to 64..
Still have 1-1/2 of ash on the tray ... (we had the T-stat set to 90deg)

It Started to pour out the heat .. so we called that good..

The temp on the stack .. about the baro .. was just over 100deg..

The temp on the stove (above the glass door) .. .was 410deg..

I think the Baro Damper needs to be adjusted .. Its a cheaper one than I have..
it has no readings on the weight .. to tell what its set on...
I have the Fields control RC .. and I paid double what he paid..
but looks like you get what you pay for..
He was told by the people he bought the stove from .. to make the door light .. when you tap it..
also to put it as CLOSE to the stove as you can..
SO it sits .. right on top of the stove ... I thought it would be better to have at lease 1 section of pipe.. before the baro..
The chimney is a clay lined, concrete... Very good shape..

I'm thinking that the stove will run just fine now .. but if we get some more zero deg temps..
they will start to get cold again... if the draft pulls the heat out of the house..

They are happy with it .. and they are still only burning about 50lbs a day..
Way Cheaper than the propane bills Last year ... $400-$500 every 4 weeks.

Yes there should be a piece of pipe between the stove flue and baro 12" 18" is better . The baro works by taking in the cooler room air and breaking the draft in the chimney by having a baro on top of the unit the stove air is hotter then the cooler room air . defeating the purpose of the baro . Cut a piece of stove pipe and put it between the stove flue and baro
or if there is room for a whole section of stove pipe 24" put it in . If not cut at least 12" and put it in .Look at the link below go to the bottom of the page you will see different set ups also the Instuctions that came with the baro should tell
you to have a piece of pipe between the stove flue and baro. And not to put the baro right on top of the stove flue.

http://fieldcontrols.com/draftcontrol.php
J.C.

Heating house & water with a 1986 electric furnace man DF520 using buckwheat Anthracite coal


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