Keystoker 90 - Not Enough Heat

 
treysgt
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Post by treysgt » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 7:41 am

I do not think my 90,000 BTU coal stoker stove is putting out enough heat for my 1200sq foot house. I do not have the best of insulation going on here but I do not think it is hot enough coming out of the vent.

I attached a picture of the firebox. Maybe I am missing something, eg. what are those clips in the metal for in the middle of the picture? Did they hold something?

I have good draft as I feel the air going up the pipe and the pipe temperature is not over 100 degrees according to the spring gauge. It has a pretty good fire it seems to me and burns about just under 40 lbs of rice coal a day. What should I do?

Yours, PicDuBois

Attachments

131.JPG

firebox

.JPG | 119.8KB | 131.JPG


 
billlindley
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Post by billlindley » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 8:59 am

What brand of coal are you using? Thru reading these boards I have fond that the brand of coal also effects heat output. I am currenlty using Reading Anthracite and am looking to get a few tons of Blaschak whihc has been recommended by many on this board. Perhaps that is why you are not getting as much heat as you expected... Just a thought.

 
treysgt
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Post by treysgt » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 9:09 am

I'm using Blaschak - seems to be fine. I think the issue is more of a mechanical or draft related problem. Mostly wondering if I am missing a part that should be held by those flange points in the firebox, or just in general if other Keystokers know of some tips or tricks I should try. Thanks

 
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WNY
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Post by WNY » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 9:11 am

Can you turn up the feed rate a bit? When it's fully burning, does it almost fill the burn plate? What type of control do you have? Thermostat, rheostat, etc.. Are the blowers working correctly? etc..

How is your baro damper set? If not set correctly, you could be sucking a lot heat from the stove.

My stove doesn't even have those tabs or plate inside, mine is all open on the inside.

Also, where is your stove located, in the living area or basement.?

 
REDMAN
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Post by REDMAN » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 9:34 am

Tryesgt, can you tell us a little more about your set up? Is it a direct vent or natural draft hooked up to a chimney? If its a natural draft, do you have a barometric damper hooked up? Is the stoker in the basement or upstairs in the living space? If it's in the basement, how do you get the heat upstairs? Is it tied into existing duct work? Do you have the stoker on a thermostat and where is it located. How much ash do you have at the end of the grate at full burn? what does the fire look like at full burn? How much is the combustion blower restricted? Is the stoker brand new or an older one? People on this forum will need all this information to troubleshoot your problem properly.

 
pjb153
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Post by pjb153 » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 9:39 am

There is allot more questions to be answered from you before we decide on a solution. I run a 15 year old keystoker 90 and it does what it was designed for, but I am hard pressed to get the efficient burn my fathers new keystoker 90 does.

First some questions for you.

How old is the stove? The older models had a slanted grate, which I found to be harder to keep a full burn going without loosing un-burnt coal into the ash pan. I currently have my feed rate set at 4 full turns below max.

It appears that from the photo (of what I can see) you are not burning the max you can. Try turning the feed rate up one full turn (clockwise) and wait an hour to see what happens. It appears that with that photo of your flame, your fire is just above idol. Is the thermostat letting the stove run all the time or is it shutting off for periods. You may want to set the thermo temp so that the stove runs to your liking and maintains the temp. you might need to move the thermostat around the room until you get this correct.

What is the temp in the room you have the stove. Check it about 15 ft away and let us know.

When you say it is not throwing enough heat, do you mean the stove itself is blowing warm air, not hot air off the convection blower? If so, run the blower fan on auto and set your fan limit switch to an on of 160 degrees and off at 100 degrees. This will allow the stove to heat up and then wash hotter air off the stove.

A huge difference can be seen by simply cleaning all of the fly ash out of the stove. This includes taking off the pipe and cleaning up top of the firebox. If the stove has not been cleaned properly you will not get a high efficiency burn. You will notice a huge difference in the ashes in the pan after proper cleaning. Get as shop vac and really get in there. Also clean up along the sides of the firebox on the inside, allot of fly ash collects there as well. Remove the grate and clean in there too. Be sure to use furnace cement to replace the grate. Do all this with the stove shut down and cooled of course.

And finally if the stove is in the basement, do some homework on ducting or proper floor registers with cold air return from the living space. This will circulate the heat better.

Once you get a really high burn and the stove is putting out allot more heat, check your draft again. You may find you need to adjust. You should have a damper on the pipe, if you do not.. buy one now.

It is a trial and error hobby and once you feel the heat that these stoves can generate, you will become addicted to maximizing it.

 
picDuBois2
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Post by picDuBois2 » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 10:09 am

Thanks for the tips. My father (PicDuBois) will be replying to the other questions - he was having some problems getting on the forum so I posted this for him originally. I have not actually seen the setup yet but hear it is mighty cold in there so far!
-treysgt


 
picDuBois2
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Post by picDuBois2 » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 1:50 pm

I am using Christmas coal in a 40 lbs bag and have started making adjustments. Thanks for your comment. My son (treysgt)knows more about coal and computers than I (picDuBois2)and I thank him as well.
billlindley wrote:What brand of coal are you using? Thru reading these boards I have fond that the brand of coal also effects heat output. I am currenlty using Reading Anthracite and am looking to get a few tons of Blaschak whihc has been recommended by many on this board. Perhaps that is why you are not getting as much heat as you expected... Just a thought.

 
picDuBois2
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Post by picDuBois2 » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 1:56 pm

Thanks. I have given it another clockwise turn and am awaiting results. The fire is about half and ash the other half. I have a thermostat that I got at the hardware store but set it up where it has never been satisfied. I have moved the damper control to allow more air. The stove is in a bay window on the first floor and blows directly into the living room that is not warm but I do not know the exact temp.
WNY wrote:Can you turn up the feed rate a bit? When it's fully burning, does it almost fill the burn plate? What type of control do you have? Thermostat, rheostat, etc.. Are the blowers working correctly? etc..

How is your baro damper set? If not set correctly, you could be sucking a lot heat from the stove.

My stove doesn't even have those tabs or plate inside, mine is all open on the inside.

Also, where is your stove located, in the living area or basement.?

 
picDuBois2
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Post by picDuBois2 » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 2:09 pm

Hi Redman. I think it is direct vent. It goes out of the top of the stove and out the window and is hooked to the facade of the bay window. I can feel air going through the pipe so it seems to be venting and I have been fiddeling with the damper. I can blow on it and it swings open. The stove faces the living room, front door to the right and stairwell to the lect. The termostat is on the wall behind the stove and is never satisfied.There is half ash at this point and the combustion blower is about half closed - metal flap right on the center of the inlet. I think the stove is old as the fire grate is on a slant. It is a used stove and I knew there would be some fiddling to do. I think I have to wait a bit now to see what has happened with the adjustments I made. Thank you for your help.
REDMAN wrote:Tryesgt, can you tell us a little more about your set up? Is it a direct vent or natural draft hooked up to a chimney? If its a natural draft, do you have a barometric damper hooked up? Is the stoker in the basement or upstairs in the living space? If it's in the basement, how do you get the heat upstairs? Is it tied into existing duct work? Do you have the stoker on a thermostat and where is it located. How much ash do you have at the end of the grate at full burn? what does the fire look like at full burn? How much is the combustion blower restricted? Is the stoker brand new or an older one? People on this forum will need all this information to troubleshoot your problem properly.

 
picDuBois2
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Post by picDuBois2 » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 2:22 pm

Thanks for your interest. It must be pretty old as the fire grate is on a slant but I have not had any coal getting to the ash pan except when I first lighted it. I did clean out under the grate (are there two grates?) If so I missed one, but I did cement it back in according to the instructions given me by the factory when I journeyed up there. I did not ask all the questions I would have liked to then but was happy to get away with a book of instruction. The stove runs constantly and the thermostat is set way up and I think you are right I just have to keep turning it up - a little bit at a time It is blowing warm air (but now a bit hotter) and it is on automatic but never stops blowing except one time when I got too much air going through the damper.I will get back to you all in the am after I digest all of this information you have been kind enough to submit. Thank you.
pjb153 wrote:There is allot more questions to be answered from you before we decide on a solution. I run a 15 year old keystoker 90 and it does what it was designed for, but I am hard pressed to get the efficient burn my fathers new keystoker 90 does.

First some questions for you.

How old is the stove? The older models had a slanted grate, which I found to be harder to keep a full burn going without loosing un-burnt coal into the ash pan. I currently have my feed rate set at 4 full turns below max.

It appears that from the photo (of what I can see) you are not burning the max you can. Try turning the feed rate up one full turn (clockwise) and wait an hour to see what happens. It appears that with that photo of your flame, your fire is just above idol. Is the thermostat letting the stove run all the time or is it shutting off for periods. You may want to set the thermo temp so that the stove runs to your liking and maintains the temp. you might need to move the thermostat around the room until you get this correct.

What is the temp in the room you have the stove. Check it about 15 ft away and let us know.

When you say it is not throwing enough heat, do you mean the stove itself is blowing warm air, not hot air off the convection blower? If so, run the blower fan on auto and set your fan limit switch to an on of 160 degrees and off at 100 degrees. This will allow the stove to heat up and then wash hotter air off the stove.

A huge difference can be seen by simply cleaning all of the fly ash out of the stove. This includes taking off the pipe and cleaning up top of the firebox. If the stove has not been cleaned properly you will not get a high efficiency burn. You will notice a huge difference in the ashes in the pan after proper cleaning. Get as shop vac and really get in there. Also clean up along the sides of the firebox on the inside, allot of fly ash collects there as well. Remove the grate and clean in there too. Be sure to use furnace cement to replace the grate. Do all this with the stove shut down and cooled of course.

And finally if the stove is in the basement, do some homework on ducting or proper floor registers with cold air return from the living space. This will circulate the heat better.

Once you get a really high burn and the stove is putting out allot more heat, check your draft again. You may find you need to adjust. You should have a damper on the pipe, if you do not.. buy one now.

It is a trial and error hobby and once you feel the heat that these stoves can generate, you will become addicted to maximizing it.

 
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WNY
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Post by WNY » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 2:37 pm

If it comes out of the TOP of the stove, that is a TOP VENT, but not nececessarly a Direct Vent.

A Direct VENT has a BLOWER attached directly to the stove opening and actually pushes the air out.
A Power Vent is mounted on the outside of the building and sucks the exhaust gases.

If you have a Baro Damper installed, it is either a Natural draft (hooked to a chimney) or power vent on the outside of the house.

If the damper is opening and closing when you blow on it, then it's working, but may not be calibrated correctly. It coudl be set too heavy, therefore, drawing more heat out of the stove.
Does it have the Weight on it? Is it located in a Vertical or Horz. piece of pipe?

If your thermostat is turned up and the stove is NOT responding, something is wrong, if you turn it down do you hear a CLICK on the stove, then another click when you turn it back up? If so, then that is working correctly.

Turn the Thermostat UP over the Room temp to get the stove to respond to Heat Demand, then
Turn the Feeder KNOB/Screw on the back of the stoker unit IN (Clockwise - I believe) to get more feed rate, until it's burning really well and not pushing hot coals off the end. Turn it 1/2 way at a time and check it after 30 mins or so. Once it get really close to the end (within 1" ) that is a good feed rate. Let the stove catch up and start cranking, then turn the thermostat down until it is satisfied.

 
REDMAN
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Post by REDMAN » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 2:38 pm

In one of your earlier posts you mentioned having 1/2 of the grate ash. If this is when the T-stat is calling for heat, then you are on the right track by turning up the feed rate. You should only have 1 or 2 inches of ash at the end of the grate. You might have to go 1 or 2 more full turns on the feed rate to get there. A !/2 of grate of ash at full burn is alot of ash. If this fails to move the coal forward you may have problem with stoker mechanism. Could be a number of things but most common is a piece of coal jamming pusher block.

 
pjb153
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Post by pjb153 » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 2:39 pm

The stove might react a little different with a direct vent on it, but the principle of the workings are the same. the only thing the direct vent blower will do is cause the draft to react different than a chimney.

What I meant by the blower motor is the convection blower at the rear bottom of the stove that washes air out into the room. If you look, there is a silver box with a white push pin to run that fan on auto or manual. If you let it run on auto you will build up more heat on the stove, then wash it when the pin setting hits its mark. Take the cover off and see what the middle and lower pin settings are at. mine for example turns the blower fan on at 160 degrees and off when the stove has been cooled to 100 degrees.

You will push more heat setting this properly.

 
REDMAN
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Post by REDMAN » Tue. Dec. 09, 2008 3:03 pm

you might want to invest in a magnetic thermometer(Home Depot $10) for the side of the stoker. Normally the sides of the stoker at full burn average around 400*F. If the temp on your stoker is alot less, then you'll know something isn't right.


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