Coal Boiler or Coal Furnace...Help Me Figure This Out!

OK after getting some advice to read the other topics about stoker furnaces and now boilers, now I'm leaning more towards the boiler. For the stoker furnace I had it nailed down to two brands, the Alaska 140 & LL HYFIRE ll. But after reading about boilers, it may make more sense to go with a boiler. Here's a list of things I have to figure into my decision:

Coal "system" will be placed in basement may have to use a power vent if I'm not allowed to tie into an existing flue (with oil furnace) and/or location where the power vent could be located. If I am allowed to use the existing flue along with the oil furnace, there is a stainless steel liner in it, will that be an issue because of the coal fly-ash?

For boiler, there will not be any room for a coal bin next to the unit so I'm assuming that I can't use one of those auger types that feeds itself from the bin on its own. I would have to manually fill the hopper.

Since I already have forced hot water with baseboard radiant heat, is it more economical to tie into that system and the hot water tank? I currently have three zones on a 2200+ Sq/ft cape. Main floor, upstairs bedrooms, and a super stor hot water tank (currently gets hot water from the oil furnace)? I originally thought of getting the stoker furnace with a hot air jacket and have a plenum and main duct line fabricated, then tie each room on the main level with pipe and registers. then I would have a 12x12 cold air return cut into the floor to "balance" the heating. Basically I would have to have all the extras built into the stoker system because I wouldn't have an existing force hot air system.

So a couple of questions:

Can I tie into an existing flue, either using a Y-pipe or busting into it somewhere else? If the latter, should it be higher or lower than the oil duct? There is that SS liner in it, can it be fastened into it? Or can a coal boiler use a power vent and then I would have to run pipe further to tie into the existing system?

Big factor: The cost!!!!!!!!!!! Initially would it cost more or less to buy a boiler than buying a stoker furnace and building the plenum and duct work? Not sure about adding a hot water coil to the stoker furnace and tying into the super stor tank, can either Alaska or LL HYFIRE ll support enough heat to make DHW for my super stor tank? Can someone give out ball park $$ of what both systems may cost me? Just approximates / guesses are quite welcome.

Will the coal boiler add radiant heat in the basement (more so than the oil furnace). The basement is not heated other than the radiant heat from the oil, and I would like it warmer in there.

A little history about me....We lived in another house about 14 years ago. It was a cape that was about 1400 sq ft but it had electric heat and electric hot water tank. I bought the Alaska stoker stove 2 and had a plenum and duct work built. The stove had a hot air jacket and (2) 100 cfm blowers at the bottom. A 90lb hopper and all the coal came in bags (I lived in Ma., now I live in CT.) The heating was fantastic, I was able to keep the heat on the main floor about 70 -73 and the basement was 74 -77, with the 12x12 return, the house balanced quite well. I did have a chimney built along the gable end where the stove was located. I used it 5 seasons until I sold the house and left the system with it.

So I figured I would copy what I did previous, but now I have the forced hot water system and would like "ALL" advice that I can get. What should I do? Copy what I did, or tie into what I have with a coal boiler?

Thanks for listening and hoping for lots of opinions!

Normy

I don't think you can power vent a coal boiler. Stove, yes, but boiler no. Most would suggest to tie the coal into the chimney and power vent the oil so it only comes on when it fires up. You can get a boiler to use your baseboard hot water heat. They are not cheap (approx $7000 and up) and right now there is a few month waiting period due to demand. What I did and more than a few people on here, we bought used boilers, rebuilt or refurbished them, then installed them ourselves. I am probably out about $2000-2500 counting the boiler, parts and some piping. But that is cheap for I did the refurb myself and all labor. I did buy a new stove last year and was wonderful but if I had to do it again, I would skip the stove and go direct to the boiler. Takes a lot more planning and time but money wise, it was actually cheaper than the stove counting install.

Boiler would probably be more money up front, but for you, I think it's a better idea. Then you can heat "normally" and have the superstore work as usual.

As Mozz mentioned, new boilers (and even stoves) are very scarce right now.

Hi Gents,

7K is very expensive.

As I mentioned, I won't be able to use the auger type in the basement so I would use a hopper style. Let's see if you can help me decide on a brand/model for the stoker, hopper coal boiler.

It needs to heat 2000+ ft of baseboard and DHW. Also I would like to get heat into the garage (under the house type). That would mean more base board or is there another way?

The current oil boiler is actually under sized for the house so it runs more than it should (A 3 stage Weld McClain gold series, was told it should be 4 stage).

The house has old windows with storms and their not going to get changed out anytime soon.

It will be located int the basement, and it is a walk out type.

I want it to be a stoker style and used is fine with me.

With everything I mentioned, any guesses on how many tons it would use? 2x4 walls with blown in installation and drafty windows. New steel doors. The old house used about 2.5 to 3 ton, but not heating water and not forced hot water baseboards.

EDIT: forgot to mention that I won't figure that I will get this done for this winter!

Thanks
Normy

A keystoker Kaa2 or Ka6 or a Harman VF3000 or AHS S130 will all do the job for your size of house,, all three use a hopper on the boiler, not an auger feed.

Take a look at :

http://www.keystoker.com
http://www.harmanstoves.com

Do a search on the site for VF3000 Kaa2, Ka6 for more info.

Greg L

Wanted to say one more thing, you can run the auger type if you are short on room, just have it go into a 55 gal drum. Shovel or dump your coal into the drum.

The boilers I mentioned above were all under $5000 this season. Whether they stay at that price next year is anyones guess. The many plus's mentioned above are worth paying for. Do it right, once..

A coal boiler added to your oil hot water system is by far the best way to go.. A boiler is so much better than a furnace, that many people use a boiler as a way to heat HOT AIR for their forced AIR systems.. A boiler is just that much better than a furnace for storing heat and using the heat from a coal fire.

If I were in your shoes, I'd look around for any reasonably good used stove,, they are STILL showing up in the papers: http://www.craigslist.com http://papershop.com/ and on Ebay. Also: contact your local HVAC installers and service people.. tell them you are looking for a used coal boiler.. you will take it out, The 'new boiler installers' often just sell the old 'junk' coal boilers for scrap price.. You can get one and refurb it yourself. and learn a lot, and have a great system for your house..

Best of luck, Greg L.

LsFarm wrote:A keystoker Kaa2 or Ka6 or a Harman VF3000 will all do the job for your size of house,, all three use a hopper on the boiler, not an auger feed.

Take a look at :

http://www.keystoker.com
http://www.harmanstoves.com

Do a search on the site for VF3000 Kaa2, Ka6 for more info.

Greg L

Does one hot water coil work better than the other?

The hot water coils are rated at 'number of gallons per minute, at 'x' degrees temperature rise, at 'x' boiler water temperature.' Some boiler makers offer different capacity coils..
The best domestic hot water system doesn't use a coil anyway,, it uses the boiler water in a dedicated zone to an indirect hot water heater to heat the DHW.

Greg L

Hi Greg,

The two brands that you mentioned above look to both have hot water coils at least as an option, do they have the dedicated boiler zone type too that you mentioned?

Thanks

Normy

What I was talking about is a way to plumb a boiler, any boiler to use the hot water in the boiler to heat domestic hot water in what is called an 'indirect water heater'.. it is not an option to a boiler,, the indirect water heater is something you buy and plumb your boiler to.

A zone is a circulation loop off of a boiler.. a dedicated zone for an indirect hot water heater is just a loop from the boiler to the heater and back.

I recommend that you get a few books on boilers and plumbing and read up on plumbing a hot water system.

Greg L
.

Thanks greg,

I think I was confused. Since I already have a Super Stor tank that is running a separate circulating valve off the oil system, I wouldn't need the DHW coil because I can get the water from the boiler part (forced hot water for baseboard heating). And the water coil is for tankless systems?

Is this correct?

And if this is correct, The same "hot" water will come out of the tap and base board heat, separated by "check valves".

Thanks
Normy

Nope, still confused.. the water in the boiler and baseboards is 'stale' water.. it is never meant to be taken out or fresh added. Your boiler is heating your super store tank.. that is an indirect hot water heater.. you would plumb the coal boiler identically.

An instant hot water heater or a tankless heater is a coil in the boiler.. but they are not as good as what you have now..

Greg L