Stove Installation Predicament

Hi folks,

I'm new here, and I'm hoping someone can help me out. I have an Efel coal/wood stove I bought used a few years ago, and never got around to installing it. I have an unusual situation, and hopefully I can explain it clearly.

Our house is somewhere between 150 and 200 years old. At one point, there were three chimneys, and each room had a small stove with a thimble passing into the common chimney. There is only the one chimney remaining. There is no soot at all inside the last remaining chimney - it is absolutely clean, which is why I'm convinced wood smoke has never gone through it on a regular basis.

The one remaining brick chimney is in our living room, located on the inside wall of the house, and between two windows. This chimney used to go through the roof (obviously) but at some point in the house's history - I think in the early 1970's, the roof was redone, and the chimney was removed down to the floor level of the attic. At floor level, the bottom 33" of the chimney is painted black, and there are three different thimble openings that have been closed up, one is near the ceiling, the other two overlap and are 20-22" on center from the floor. Based on the lath/plaster lines, I believe there was a false fireplace and mantle, with a hearth for the stove. The original floor was covered with oak hardwood flooring, and the false fireplace removed sometime in the late 1950's.

So I have a dilemma: the inside dimension of the chimney is 5" x 18". While my original plan was to run single wall flue up through the chimney, and use double wall through the attic and the roof penetration, my Efel stove has a 6-1/2" outlet, and specifies a minimum 6" chimney flue on the listing plate on the back of it. Obviously, I can't run a six inch diameter chimney flue through a five inch wide chimney unless I make it oval, and that creates a bunch of other problems - such as how to I turn the oval flue 90 degrees through the chimney wall? The chimney is completely closed all the way to the floor, so it will be difficult to work on anything without breaking into it, which I believe would result in catastrophic failure of the chimney. I would have to pass a flue with an elbow already on it down the chimney, and connect the pipe through a thimble in the chimney wall (15' below the attic floor).

I thought of going straight though the chimney and using double wall pipe outside the house, but the oil furnace chimney is on the outside of the wall. I also though I could demo the chimney inside the house, and the cinder block chimney outside the house, and build a new double flue chimney, which certainly would solve the problem but would also cost a lot more than I want to spend right now.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? What would you do?

Thanks!

What kind of shape is the chimney in now? Generally if it's in good shape no need to line it. The lining will rot out in roughly ten years with coal. The initial investment in a new chimney is more but its going to last forever with coal. Any investment you make in a steel liner is only temporary.

See this thread: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

Talk to these guys, very helpful.
http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/
This is where I got my liner and parts.
There are other things you can do but the liner will be the easiest and least expensive.

Richard S. wrote:What kind of shape is the chimney in now? Generally if it's in good shape no need to line it. The lining will rot out in roughly ten years with coal. The initial investment in a new chimney is more but its going to last forever with coal. Any investment you make in a steel liner is only temporary.

See this thread: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

I'd say fair. The chimney is unlined, and is made from a soft red brick. Thee is a crack extending from where the lower thimble was plugged up through the center of the chimney face to about 7 feet from the floor.

The crack terminates at what looks to be the original thimble - which is a square hole 6" x 6" and plugged with brick. My original count was wrong, there are four thimble openings that are plugged.

I would think twice about using that chimney.What happens if there is a crack that you don't see?I know that with coal you don't run the risk of a chimney fire but the chimney you decribe seems to be built of older materials.I'm the last guy that would say not to use it(my chimney is 80 yrs old)but if it's soft brick it's older than mine.It would prolly work the way it is and might be OK but if anything were to happen that would be the first thing the ins. co. would point a finger at.
Just my .02
DON

After rereading your post maybe you could sell the efel and buy a new stove that is a direct vent type.Used stoves are at a premium now,but so are new ones.
DON

There are chimney repair systems that inflate a tube in an unlined chimney, pour a cast-in-place liner around the inflated tube, when the cast in place concrete [?] is set, the tube is deflated and removed,, the result is a new concrete liner, which is airtight but also reinforces your old soft brick chimney.

I don't know the name, but a google search should turn it up.

Greg L.

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if you are are looking for that stainless steel liner, before you order it, pm me,
I have one for sale for much lower price and it is brand new not used
just sitting in my garage.

Dan

http://www.solidflue.com/overview.htm
http://www.ahrenschimney.com/commercial.html
There are others but this will give you a sense of the systems.
I would have the chimney checked out before you go too far.
The crack is probably a result of the various thimble jobs
Better to be safe....

Thanks CapeCoaler.

Greg L.

Thanks everyone for all your help - great information!

The more I think about it, the more it seems to make sense to tear out both the inside brick chimney, and the exterior cinder block chimney for the oil furnace, and put up a new double flue chimney on the exterior wall. It wouldn't be historically correct for the house, but I'm not terribly worried about that. I imagine that's going to be pretty expensive though. I do like the idea of the cast liner systems; I wonder how much it would cost?

That would also allow me to put the stove close to the wall - the existing inside chimney is 15" into the room.

I also agree that I should probably be looking for a new stove. I have Tuesday off and make take a ride out to Reading Stove Co. in PA. What a coincidence it's off the same exit as Cabela's...

Anyway, I can always install the old stove in the barn.

Anyone have a suggestion for a coal stove that looks traditional, doesn't require a blower, not too big, and has a glass door so we can look at the fire?

NJ GSP wrote:Anyone have a suggestion for a coal stove that looks traditional, doesn't require a blower, not too big, and has a glass door so we can look at the fire?

Keystoker makes some nice radiant coal stoves.
**Broken Link(s) Removed**

NJ GSP wrote:Thanks everyone for all your help - great information!

The more I think about it, the more it seems to make sense to tear out both the inside brick chimney, and the exterior cinder block chimney for the oil furnace, and put up a new double flue chimney on the exterior wall.

That would be the best decision, I always try to do things once and do them right. Initial costs can always make you go but every time I have done anything half assed or purchased something less than what I've wanted I've always ended up kicking myself in the ass. Lining it with steel or anything else will undoubtedly present problems in the future. I don't know exactly what you can expect from a stainless steel liner but it does have shelf life in a coal application inside a chimney. Our galvanized flue pipe from the furnace to the chimney has lasted many years, AFAIK the life of the boiler which is over 25 years. That's a different situation though it's a heavy gauge and its been running nearly 24/7/365 for the entire time since its been installed.

On here and when I was in business I could not tell you how many times I've heard "We just wished we purchased larger stove". Granted if you have never used coal before cold feet is understandable (pun intended ) but that is one of the things I've heard a lot.

Brick chimneys are not that expensive.I have seen block chimneys 30 or 40 yrs. old that had to be replaced.When you get estimates get a few.they will vary a lot.

Good idea to look at new stoves.With the people here I'm sure you can make an informed decision.This is a great place for honest info.

BTW welcome aboard
DON