Vertiflow or carpet stoker ??

 
joeblack5
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Post by joeblack5 » Wed. Jan. 12, 2022 11:59 am

12 years ago I converted a energy king hand feed boiler using a keystoker I got from Matt. This unit is in the shop.

In the house we have air heatpump to water floor heat and an Englander wood pellet stove.

I like to convert the house to a coal stoker as well. Bought for $200 a Harman vertiflow st8 parts stove.. Single unobtanium grate and flat top.

The single grate is cracked and so I am looking to resolve this.

My first question is.
Is the vertiflow design better then a normal flatbed block or carpet stoker?

What is the real world advantage of the vertiflow.

Did anybody change a vertiflow to a carpet?

Thanks folks.

J


 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Jan. 23, 2022 8:19 am

joeblack5 wrote:
Wed. Jan. 12, 2022 11:59 am

I like to convert the house to a coal stoker as well. Bought for $200 a Harman vertiflow st8 parts stove.. Single unobtanium grate and flat top.

The single grate is cracked and so I am looking to resolve this.

My first question is.
Is the vertiflow design better then a normal flatbed block or carpet stoker?
Well proven design. Biggest issue it seems is when not cleaning at the end of season that the pusher block can seize in throat. This condition is accelerated by using wet coal.

What is the real world advantage of the vertiflow.
Advantage, compact and solidly built.

Did anybody change a vertiflow to a carpet?
Do you mean modify a base vert-flow from a pusher block into a carpet feed?…If so then I think it would be a very large undertaking as pusher block compared to carpet feeder are worlds apart.


BTW:

A few months back there was a seller on eBay with several of those one piece grates…$50.00

And why wouldn’t the newer style 2-piece grates fit in just the same?

 
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Post by Pacowy » Sun. Jan. 23, 2022 10:31 am

Vertiflow advantage - thicker bed of coals generally holds fire better at idle.

Mike

 
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Post by joeblack5 » Mon. Feb. 07, 2022 8:12 pm

Thank you.
To bad , I missed that auction.
The keystoker that I have on my energy king boiler would be considered a block stoker but instead of the vertiflow it has a flat grate.
At the local scrapyard someone dumped an Alaska stove.. I took the stoker part out and this is a flat grate with a thin plate that advances the coal.
I can see that the Harman vertiflow is build much heavier then the Alaska carpet from the scrapyard.
I would think seeing the size of the motors and the more complicated mechanism from the block stoker that the flatplate carpet stoker requires much less electrical energy. Also pushing coal up a hill as in the vertiflow would require a lot more effort then having it sliding down a slope as in the flatbed.

Do you think the vertiflow design came out of the cone grate with auger...like a flattened segment of the cone grate?

"Thicker coal bed holds fire better at idle"....ok, I see, thank you, that makes sense.

The Harman stove is build like a tank. I can still feel my back when we layed that in the back of my old Mercedes wagon. So the built like a tank part I like.. the Alaska I like for the appearent simplicity and low expected electric energy use. I do not think I will idle that much because we will mainly use in deep winter..
The grate from the Harman is broken and hard to get so I will try to modify the Alaska stoker mechanism to fit thru the hole of the Harman....

This Harman has the flat top that is prone to clogging with ash. Is there a simple modification that clears that ash to the side while the stove is in operation? I thought a bout a wiper
But figured that others might have come with a smart solution

Thanks a bunch,

Johan

 
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Post by Pacowy » Tue. Feb. 08, 2022 4:44 pm

What size of Keystoker have you been using? I believe the largest of the Alaska carpet stokers was rated at 70k btu/hr input, or a little under 6 lb/hr. Vertiflow is bigger, but may not match Keystoker, depending on model.

Mike

 
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Post by joeblack5 » Thu. Feb. 10, 2022 10:07 am

hi Mike,

The keystoker is in boiler in my shop..it feeds the floor heat of our house thru an underground pex pipe. It is 9-1/2" wide . Not sure what the btu rating is. I have set it up that it feeds on a constant low rate so it never idles. The boiler is a wood / coal boiler from energy king. Obvious not an original stoker
During an outage, never happens here, I can use the water-cooled NG generator to heat the house as well.

See pic.

The Harman is meant for inside the house to replace a wood pellet stove.

See pics.
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Feb. 10, 2022 11:54 am

Ha! I have a 10kW propane water-cooled generator for same.
Also have a 85k btu/hr. Harmon Verti-Flow shelved waiting for a project. 😁

Your Keystoker 9-1/2 inch wide is what’s found in KA-6 stoker…3- section (3x3.2)…thinking it is about 180k btu/hr.


 
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Post by joeblack5 » Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 7:46 am

Hi mcgiever. Good plan, what ideas do you have for the vertiflow?

I got tired of the ventilation fan in the wood pellet stove,. Haha besides the cost of wood pellets,.
It is only for downstairs so I do not need the 85 kbtu. Also wanted to use less electricity and a simpler stoker mechanism can maybe help with that..
The original had to be repaired anyhow. I would have liked Alaska auger rice/ wood pellet stove mechanism and fire pot only but they are hard to come buy..
anyone would want to trade Alaska auger stove for a good axeman Anderson 130 boiler then let me know.

It looks like I have to modify this Alaska stoker mechanism considerably to make it fit the Harman stove.

Johan

 
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McGiever
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Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Fri. Feb. 11, 2022 5:16 pm

Hey jb,
Is that Alaska carpet stoker that much smaller than 85k but/hr.?

Haha! Yeah, I’d like to get my hands on one of those Alaska augers myself. 😁

I have Reading carpet stoker with the single motor modified to have second motor for combustion fan rather than off feeder motor shaft. Cut it into a Riteway 37 stove that got air jacket built around to run as a furnace. It worked well until I stumbled across a AA-130M and switched everything out.

For the Verti-Flow stoker I’ve been toying with the idea of setting a Bucket A Day (boiler) hot water heater over it for supplying heat “slow and steady” to a staple up radiant loop under wood floors. Thinking it would be neat having hopper dribbling coal to a Vertical-Flow under a B.A.D. boiler.

 
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Post by joeblack5 » Sun. Feb. 13, 2022 8:49 am

Very nice, floor heat is lovely. We have it under our wooden floor and it works well but cannot keep up when it get below freezing.. that is when we use the pellet stove..

Sound you need my axeman 130 as a spare. Haha.

These axeman are beautiful. I thought that I wanted that . But later changed my plans to wood and coal and added the stoker to that... Now it is just sitting in my heated shop waiting for better times...as are many other things..

Johan

 
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McGiever
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Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Sun. Feb. 13, 2022 3:52 pm

Hahaha! J, Thanks but I already have a second or spare AA130!

Sounds like our shops may be looking very similar!! 😝

 
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Post by joeblack5 » Mon. Mar. 21, 2022 8:13 pm

Mike, still have to go to my other shop to take some pics from this aa130. Wrote it down on my " calender" for tomorrow morning.

I would like to have an Alaska auger in this Harman so that I have an easy option for wood pellets.. just to play around started to modify the carpet stoker to fit the Harman.
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Because the Harman has such a small opening and also because the Harman uses ceramic heat tiles to protect the rear wall the stoker has to be modified. These are the first steps.

I have to test the rpm on the stoker gear motor.. a DC 12 V motor equivalent at 1.5rpm takes 100 mAmp.. so it could run on a battery easily.

This stoker will get a separate DC blower so that air and fuel can be optimized individually..



Johan

 
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McGiever
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Mon. Mar. 21, 2022 9:59 pm

Had you ever tried burning the wood pellets in the VertiFlow?

DC motors will be a great addition for all of the reasons that you mentioned.

 
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Post by joeblack5 » Thu. Mar. 24, 2022 9:02 pm

I never tried to fix the vertiflow.. would be afraid of hopper fire. Maybe if one would add a second fire barrier.. we have a cheap Englander pellet stove with two augers.. the first auger sets the fire rating the second runs faster and all the time keeping the pellet transport channel empty so that no fire can backtrack to the hopper.

Anyhow an auger mechanism seems to be more thrust worthy against hopper fires then carpet or block stokers.

Johan

 
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McGiever
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Fri. Mar. 25, 2022 12:08 am

Gotcha

I’m familiar with the the Englander two auger setup to break continuity with burn Bach into the pellet hopper.


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