First time home buyer with Coal Furnace! Info Please?
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- Member
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Tue. Jan. 13, 2015 8:49 am
- Location: Springwater NY, (Western NY)
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 105 - SOLD
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 30-95 - Garage
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: HITZER 50-93 - HOUSE
- Coal Size/Type: NUT
- Other Heating: PROPANE FURNACE, ELECTIC BASE BOARD, AND WOOD FIRE PLACE
I also walked into the house with no idea what I was doing with a coal stove have never seen one in my life. By Christmas that first year I was going to drag the thing out of my house and scrap the damn thing, I HATED it. I did a little research, found this site and got the stove working the way it should. I've never looked back.
I have since sold the Stokers and Switched to Hitzer Shakers, since I don't want to have to worry about power outages.
I have since sold the Stokers and Switched to Hitzer Shakers, since I don't want to have to worry about power outages.
- keegs
- Member
- Posts: 678
- Joined: Sat. Dec. 24, 2016 7:38 pm
- Location: Bridgewater, ME
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby (main floor)
- Coal Size/Type: nut
I would still pursue financing options if you really want the house and it's a good deal.
If you get turned down, try another lender. Not all providers and lenders may want to do business with you.
But I've kept homeowner's insurance on a second home that doesn't have a central heating system (I heat it with a Chubby) for some years now.
As was mentioned, winter travel could be limited in certain circumstances with this kind of primary heat source.
If you get turned down, try another lender. Not all providers and lenders may want to do business with you.
But I've kept homeowner's insurance on a second home that doesn't have a central heating system (I heat it with a Chubby) for some years now.
As was mentioned, winter travel could be limited in certain circumstances with this kind of primary heat source.
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- Member
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Mon. Jan. 28, 2019 9:23 pm
- Location: EasternPA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
- Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
- Other Heating: Propane Insert; Heat Pump
Hey Andrew. Don’t know if you looked for those videos, but here is a link to get you started - https://www.keystoker.com/help-center/
If you do get the house, my advice would be to take things slow. Many people on here will reiterate that coal is slow to respond to adjustments. It may take hours or days to see how minor adjustments actually change the behavior of the stove. In my opinion, I would start it up just how the previous owner had it running (as long as it is safe). Make sure CO detectors are working and you learn how to check draft. Use it for a few weeks. You will really see how it behaves under various conditions. To help answer some of your other questions I took pictures of my setup.
This is a manometer. Keystokers have a plug near the ash door to check draft. You can hook the manometer up to that and always know your draft. The manual for your stove will tell you the proper range.
This is the draft inducer fan or Keystoker calls it a direct vent. It must run constantly with the combustion motor. This is a place where fly ash will build up and cause draft issues. You can attach ducts to the furnace to get the heat upstairs more efficiently. Here you see the metal box (plenum) where the ducts are attached to supply your vents. Lastly, I have my return air coming from my basement as well with the filters on the blower like yours. Rather than bringing in outside air you have to heat, just allow your first floor air a way to get to your basement. You said there are floor vents. Convert some to supplies with ducts and leave a few open (no ducts). The returns on the furnace will pull the air down. Here are return vents that lead from my foyer to the basement as ductless return. I hope some of this helps. Let us know any updates!
If you do get the house, my advice would be to take things slow. Many people on here will reiterate that coal is slow to respond to adjustments. It may take hours or days to see how minor adjustments actually change the behavior of the stove. In my opinion, I would start it up just how the previous owner had it running (as long as it is safe). Make sure CO detectors are working and you learn how to check draft. Use it for a few weeks. You will really see how it behaves under various conditions. To help answer some of your other questions I took pictures of my setup.
This is a manometer. Keystokers have a plug near the ash door to check draft. You can hook the manometer up to that and always know your draft. The manual for your stove will tell you the proper range.
This is the draft inducer fan or Keystoker calls it a direct vent. It must run constantly with the combustion motor. This is a place where fly ash will build up and cause draft issues. You can attach ducts to the furnace to get the heat upstairs more efficiently. Here you see the metal box (plenum) where the ducts are attached to supply your vents. Lastly, I have my return air coming from my basement as well with the filters on the blower like yours. Rather than bringing in outside air you have to heat, just allow your first floor air a way to get to your basement. You said there are floor vents. Convert some to supplies with ducts and leave a few open (no ducts). The returns on the furnace will pull the air down. Here are return vents that lead from my foyer to the basement as ductless return. I hope some of this helps. Let us know any updates!
- amarsh818
- Member
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 11, 2020 8:50 pm
- Location: Lake Peekskill, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker Lite
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice Coal, Nut
Hi ya'll. Thanks for the comments. My mother and stepfather have a small cabin up in the Berkshires. For the first two years they heated it solely with a wood burning stove. They got homeowners insurance and a mortgage (they've since paid it off) without an issue. Also, the current homeowner of the house we're looking at has a mortgage and homeowners policy as well. We are moving forward with the deal so hopefully the lending process will not be an issue. Will keep you posted.
All good tips Eab, thanks for the pics. I poked around on the videos last night, going back to take another look tonight. I also did some research on the manometer, did not know there is a plug to hook it right up to the Keystoker, pretty user friendly.
Homeowner says burning coal upstairs makes it too hot. He burns wood in that stove. Can I just burn either wood or coal at any time? Why is it that the hopper has to be removed to burn wood? The answer to this may be obvious were I looking at it, sorry.
Also, question about the Keystoker. So of course electricitiy is necessary to power the blowers, stoker, fans and timer. But if the power were to go out, could I just continuously feed it with coal and allow it to radiate heat upwards into the living space without the use of blowers?
Thanks again guys. Will keep you in the loop.
All good tips Eab, thanks for the pics. I poked around on the videos last night, going back to take another look tonight. I also did some research on the manometer, did not know there is a plug to hook it right up to the Keystoker, pretty user friendly.
Homeowner says burning coal upstairs makes it too hot. He burns wood in that stove. Can I just burn either wood or coal at any time? Why is it that the hopper has to be removed to burn wood? The answer to this may be obvious were I looking at it, sorry.
Also, question about the Keystoker. So of course electricitiy is necessary to power the blowers, stoker, fans and timer. But if the power were to go out, could I just continuously feed it with coal and allow it to radiate heat upwards into the living space without the use of blowers?
Thanks again guys. Will keep you in the loop.
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- Member
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Mon. Jan. 28, 2019 9:23 pm
- Location: EasternPA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
- Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
- Other Heating: Propane Insert; Heat Pump
Unfortunately the main “con” with a stoker is the fire will not last without electricity. Without the combustion fan, the fire will go out within minutes
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- Member
- Posts: 2684
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
- Location: Birdsboro PA.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
- Coal Size/Type: rice
with a stoker stove like this you got about 5 minutes to save the fire by hooking to a generator or backup power source when the power goes out.
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- Member
- Posts: 6515
- Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
- Location: Cape Cod, MA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
- Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
That Hitzer 503 can be idled down...
The hopper is so it can hold more coal...
And it will feed pre-heated coal into the belly of the beast...
I heat our 2 story1900 is sq ft Cape with just the 503...
I promise you if the gaskets are good and the draft is adequate...
The stove can be idled down to 180* surface temp in your first season...
The 503 make a good backup if the power goes out...
Blowers wont work...
But the stove will make heat...
The hopper is so it can hold more coal...
And it will feed pre-heated coal into the belly of the beast...
I heat our 2 story1900 is sq ft Cape with just the 503...
I promise you if the gaskets are good and the draft is adequate...
The stove can be idled down to 180* surface temp in your first season...
The 503 make a good backup if the power goes out...
Blowers wont work...
But the stove will make heat...
- amarsh818
- Member
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 11, 2020 8:50 pm
- Location: Lake Peekskill, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker Lite
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice Coal, Nut
Hi all! Wanted to keep you updated. We moved ahead with the purchase and the sellers already signed the conract!
We hope to be closing mid March. Which means, we will still need a bit of heat which I'm excited about.
Sounds like the 503 is a great option to have if power outages occur. Sure the blowers won't work but it is gravity fed and will definitely keep us warm, especially because the insulation is super tight. I may end up using the 503 until end of November, then turn on the Koker Lite until March then revert back to 503. I don't know why I think this is a good idea but I do haha, anyone have a similar set up?
Did my research on the manometer and draft. Going to purchase the Dwyer for 45 bucks on Amazon. I am interested to see what type of draft the inducer is creating (is there a standard for this?) and what type I can create naturally by turning off the inducer and piping some fresh air to in front of the unit.
There is no barometric damper, would I have to install one if I wanted to utilize natural draft? It is not direct vented, it is vented upstairs and through the chimney.
Thanks guys! Enjoy the day. We got a couple of inches of snow last night, not much but enough to make it nice and crisp out.
Later.
We hope to be closing mid March. Which means, we will still need a bit of heat which I'm excited about.
Sounds like the 503 is a great option to have if power outages occur. Sure the blowers won't work but it is gravity fed and will definitely keep us warm, especially because the insulation is super tight. I may end up using the 503 until end of November, then turn on the Koker Lite until March then revert back to 503. I don't know why I think this is a good idea but I do haha, anyone have a similar set up?
Did my research on the manometer and draft. Going to purchase the Dwyer for 45 bucks on Amazon. I am interested to see what type of draft the inducer is creating (is there a standard for this?) and what type I can create naturally by turning off the inducer and piping some fresh air to in front of the unit.
There is no barometric damper, would I have to install one if I wanted to utilize natural draft? It is not direct vented, it is vented upstairs and through the chimney.
Thanks guys! Enjoy the day. We got a couple of inches of snow last night, not much but enough to make it nice and crisp out.
Later.
- Rick 386
- Member
- Posts: 2508
- Joined: Mon. Jan. 28, 2008 4:26 pm
- Location: Royersford, Pa
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
- Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
- Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work
- Contact:
Amarsh,
I'm a little late to this thread but let me add in my .02.
You mentioned a very tight insulated house. You might want to crack a window in the basement or consider adding an outside air duct for combustion air for the Koker in the basement. The reasoning is that you do need combustion air to that stove. If it is not readily available, the stove will start drawing in air from any source it can find. Meaning any cracks around the windows, door jambs, etc. Also if you do not get enough air, your draft can suffer the consequences. One possible way to check is if you have a good fire burning, turn on the bathroom fans, kitchen stove exhaust fan and any other "exhaust " type fan in the house and go look at the Koker and see if there is any difference in its operation. A decrease in the fire will indicate not enough "make up air."
Second, to correct a previous poster and you touched upon it, you do NOT have a direct vent stove. A direct vent stove has that blower right at the stove. That fan pushes the exhaust from the stove out to the chimney or exterior termination of that pipe. An direct vent stove HAS to have all joints in that pipe sealed up tight as the pipe is pressurized from the DV motor to the exterior.
What you have is, as you said, a draft inducer. It is used when the natural draft is not enough to have the chimney by design carry the exhaust up through the chimney. The inducer acts as a booster ban. I have one on my AA 260 boiler pipe. I only need to use it when the temps stay above 35 degrees. Other than that, the chimney works as intended.
I don't know the exact draft suggestions for a Koker but most stoves like to have about a -.02 to -.03 draft reading. Once you have your manometer installed, you will be able to tell if you need that inducer or not. It would not make that much difference on your Koker except that with too high draft, you are just wasting heat up the chimney. Hook up the manometer and check the readings with and without the inducer. That inducer should also have a rheostat to speed up or slow down the fan speed as needed to get the correct draft readings.
Any other questions, fire away !!!!
Rick
I'm a little late to this thread but let me add in my .02.
You mentioned a very tight insulated house. You might want to crack a window in the basement or consider adding an outside air duct for combustion air for the Koker in the basement. The reasoning is that you do need combustion air to that stove. If it is not readily available, the stove will start drawing in air from any source it can find. Meaning any cracks around the windows, door jambs, etc. Also if you do not get enough air, your draft can suffer the consequences. One possible way to check is if you have a good fire burning, turn on the bathroom fans, kitchen stove exhaust fan and any other "exhaust " type fan in the house and go look at the Koker and see if there is any difference in its operation. A decrease in the fire will indicate not enough "make up air."
Second, to correct a previous poster and you touched upon it, you do NOT have a direct vent stove. A direct vent stove has that blower right at the stove. That fan pushes the exhaust from the stove out to the chimney or exterior termination of that pipe. An direct vent stove HAS to have all joints in that pipe sealed up tight as the pipe is pressurized from the DV motor to the exterior.
What you have is, as you said, a draft inducer. It is used when the natural draft is not enough to have the chimney by design carry the exhaust up through the chimney. The inducer acts as a booster ban. I have one on my AA 260 boiler pipe. I only need to use it when the temps stay above 35 degrees. Other than that, the chimney works as intended.
I don't know the exact draft suggestions for a Koker but most stoves like to have about a -.02 to -.03 draft reading. Once you have your manometer installed, you will be able to tell if you need that inducer or not. It would not make that much difference on your Koker except that with too high draft, you are just wasting heat up the chimney. Hook up the manometer and check the readings with and without the inducer. That inducer should also have a rheostat to speed up or slow down the fan speed as needed to get the correct draft readings.
Any other questions, fire away !!!!
Rick
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- Member
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Mon. Jan. 28, 2019 9:23 pm
- Location: EasternPA
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
- Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
- Other Heating: Propane Insert; Heat Pump
Good call on getting the Dwyer manometer. You’ll find it very easy to use and convenient. Keystoker recommends a draft of -0.2 to -0.4 for the koker. You’ll have to find the manual for yours online and see if that is the same for the koker lite. Sorry for the confusion on the direct vent. That is obviously what I have and I thought all of the kokers had DV. I’ll defer to the other experts on draft inducers. You’ll have to let us know how things go once you’re in the house and get thinks fired up. Take care.
- amarsh818
- Member
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Sat. Jan. 11, 2020 8:50 pm
- Location: Lake Peekskill, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker Lite
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice Coal, Nut
Hi all! It's been quite a week. All is going well with the purchase. However, I did experience some push back when trying to obtain homeowners insurance. A lot of companies were not thrilled about solid fuel being the only source of heat for the home. It was not because it is coal or because it is not ducted, but the concern is that we have no way of keeping the house warm if we are to go away in the winter, causing the pipes to burst. I didn't realize that this was probably the actual concern until, oh I don't know, phone call number five? At that point I began to explain how the Koker lite works, and that it can be ran for a few days unattended. One company was interested and asking questions and were going to get back to me, then I got another company to write the policy. We also have a pit bull whom we've had for 8 years since she was 10 weeks old, and is nothing but a big mush. But insurance companies don't like pit bulls so that didn't help the situation at all. In fact some companies didn't even let me get to the stove, said they wouldn't write just because of the dog. Ridiculous.
Anyway -- thanks for your input Rick. Like you said, once I get the manometer hooked up I will play with the draft. Do you always have the manometer hooked up or is it more for just checking the draft and putting away?
And you mentioned a rheostat in the DI to adjust fan speed as needed. I guess there is a pressure sensor in the DI, triggering rheostat to adjust fan speed? Is draft sort of in constant flux or as long as the outside weather is constant, the draft is constant?
Thanks guys. Talk soon!
Anyway -- thanks for your input Rick. Like you said, once I get the manometer hooked up I will play with the draft. Do you always have the manometer hooked up or is it more for just checking the draft and putting away?
And you mentioned a rheostat in the DI to adjust fan speed as needed. I guess there is a pressure sensor in the DI, triggering rheostat to adjust fan speed? Is draft sort of in constant flux or as long as the outside weather is constant, the draft is constant?
Thanks guys. Talk soon!
- Rob R.
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 17980
- Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
My brother's home is heated by a coal boiler. When he applied for an insurance policy the man asked "What happens if the boiler runs out of coal?". My brother replied, "The same thing as an oil boiler that runs out of fuel oil". They visited a little more about how the unit worked and went ahead and wrote the policy.
- gadabout3
- Member
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon. Jul. 01, 2019 5:18 pm
- Location: Northern Kentucky
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Petit Godin 3720
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite- Nut Size
- Other Heating: Ptopane
What they fail to mention, is we coal burners are also addicts, so once you heat with coal, you won't want to go back to anything else.
- coaledsweat
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 13763
- Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
- Location: Guilford, Connecticut
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
Insurance companies consider boilers and furnaces as "conventional" appliances no matter what the fuel. Stoves are considered "supplemental" sources.
Hello Andrew I have around 4400 SQ ft house .Its a 28x48 2 1/2 leaves with a 10x30 sun room and it heats my hole house . I o not have duct work running . Just the heat rise to heat allmy rooms. I love my stoker coal stove . Coal here is 160 per ton . I have had my stove going a month now and my last month electric was $494 dollars and i called this monday to check to see how much did it cut it down and she said the last 5 days cost me $22 dollars . So if its a $100 for electric and around $160 for coal makes it alot cheaper for me and my stoker coal stove wasnt running right when i got it. It was burning more coal then it should untill i got it fix. The time was sticking and making it run all the time . But with the coal stove its warm and not cold like the electric heat. Hope this helps.