Keystoker 105 current install status

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arcticcatmatt
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Post by arcticcatmatt » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 11:35 am

This is my current keystoker 105 coal setup. I have posted about draft issues. I have it drafting better than ever now. Too well actually. The combustion motor vibrates so I have to have things leaning against it as well. I have a Wi-Fi thermostat hooked up. When baro dampner is set on most sensitive setting I'm getting .04 or so draft.. I can only get it down below .03 if I add weight to the baro. Manual calls for .02-.03 draft. Stove is in basement, chimney goes up to top of 2 story cape cod. Are my settings similar to yours? Ignore the metal rod leaning against the stove combustion motor.. only way I could get it to stop vibrating but I've since put a shim in place and quieted it down. Also.. there is no probe in the exhaust pipe for the baro.. its just a hole (like a hollow set screw).. no 90 deg probe sticking up or down into the air current.. air current goes by the hole in the fitting. Sealed up nice and tight now to the outside world.. taking plumbing apart to clean out every 1.5 ton is going to be a pain in the ass.

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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 12:04 pm

Are you measuring the draft in the stovepipe or in the hole in the ash door. You are looking for -.02 to -.025 when measured through the hole in the ash door. That would be over fire draft.

Take a picture of the other side of the combustion fan to show the flap that covers the fan opening. If you ever did need to lower the over fire draft and the baro wasn't enough, you'd open up that flap to give more air to set the over fire draft to -.02 or just over.
Last edited by nepacoal on Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 12:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

 
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nepacoal
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Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 12:10 pm

BTW, the draft in my stovepipe during a 30 to 45 minute burn is -.05 too but the over fire draft through my fire door is pegged at -.02. on my boiler, there is a hole in my fire door. On yours, I believe the hole is in your ash door. You must use the hole in the ash door to set your draft.

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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 1:03 pm

On my Keystoker KA6, I added some washers as weight/spacers on my baro to get to the 0.015-.02 draft. No concerns over that.

My over fire and stove pipe drafts are the same. I have a piece of hand bendable, no kink brake line in the door hole and in the stove pipe between the baro and the firebox. I switch the tube on the manometer as needed. They have always been the same reading as far as I know.

Yes, you have a different model, but it often helps to know what folks with similar models are doing and their results.

 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 1:14 pm

From the 105 manual:

Check Draft
After starting a fire and a consistent fire is established, the chimney will be warm enough to check draft.
1. Remove Allen screw located in ash door and insert draft gauge into hole in ash door. The draft range should not go lower than -.02, nor above -.03. The air
shutter on combustion motor and/or the barometric damper on stove pipe may be used to obtain proper draft readings.
a. If draft goes above -.03 adjust barometric damper to open a little wider.
b. If draft goes below -.02 close air shutter on combustion motor.
c. Check for debris in exhaust chamber & stack


 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 1:18 pm

CoalisCoolxWarm wrote:
Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 1:03 pm
On my Keystoker KA6, They have always been the same reading as far as I know.
I would not have thought it even possible for the over fire and stovepipe to have the same draft while firing...

When mine shuts off after a long heat call, the over fire draft jumps to around -.05 which is probably close to the stovepipe draft but it's always right around -.02 during a burn cycle.

 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 1:21 pm

nepacoal wrote:
Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 1:18 pm
I would not have thought it even possible for the over fire and stovepipe to have the same draft while firing...
It makes sense. The baro limits the draft in the chimney- whether it is related to outdoor conditions or firebox "pressure" or whatever.

I will add that I have an "always on" idle air fan. But that is a lot LESS than the main combustion fan, which is cut back pretty far.

If I tinker with that full-time fan, the situation could change (?)

 
arcticcatmatt
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Post by arcticcatmatt » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 4:39 pm

Excellent feedback thank you all!! What is an "over fire draft"? I read what you all said and called keystoker today. He was not a fan of taking draft reading from stove pipe. He told me to order a pressure tip for my manometer and get it inserted into the door like what was mentioned above and set up my draft settings that way. So I ordered the attached pressure tip and I ordered some clear tubing.. it will be ugly but it will be fine for a couple hours of testing/setup. Weird that the tip doesn't seal in the hole in the ash door. I will be interested to see how the draft compares from the stove pipe to the ash door. I hope the set screw comes out of the door, I've never taken it out in the 5 years I've had the stove.

Right now the disk/flap on the combustion fan is on 50%. Interesting that you state that allowing more air in will lower my draft. I will open it wide open tonight and see what happens to my draft. I will take a photo when I get home this evening too. I'm working on a cold air induction at the moment

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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 5:07 pm

No, don't open the flap any more. Half open is pretty standard. I just mentioned adding air to lower the draft since you were saying you couldn't get it lower than -.03 or -.04. but now we know you were taking the draft reading in the pipe instead of from the ash door. If you add too much air your draft will go positive and pump CO into your house.

Over fire draft is just the terminology for taking the draft reading inside the stove instead of in the stovepipe. Reading it inside the stove takes into account the combustion air coming in.
Last edited by nepacoal on Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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nepacoal
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Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 5:16 pm

I would suggest setting your barometric damper at -.05 tonight using the markings on the baro itself (or with your baro if you still have it in the stovepipe). Then you can fine tune the baro once you get your new fitting and hose for the ash door. The way you have it now could lead to CO leaks, especially since we're supposed to get 2 warmer days in a row...


 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 5:42 pm

Adding to the good description already given on over-fire-draft...

You have 3 main components to your draft setup.

1. Chimney draw. What does your chimney draw on its own. It WILL change with conditions such as cold chimney, warm chimney, warm days/cold days, windy days, heavy humidity, etc. A hole in your stovepipe is the standard method of checking this on oil/coal/etc systems.

2. Firebed draw. (I'm using a different term here to distinguish). How much of the chimney draft is applied to the firebed when idle/firing/etc. An automatic barometric damper is used to allow room air to be mixed into the chimney draw so only (the correct) portion is applied to the firebed.

3. Combustion fan. Tricky one here. Needs enough to meet combustion needs and speed, yet NOT more than the firebed draw can handle- or it can PRESSURIZE the firebox. BAD news if this happens, things like Carbon Monoxide seep out of the stove pipes. IF you need more combustion air, you must increase the VOLUME of air being drafted, WITHOUT changing the pressures. This shows up by maintaining a proper draft in the chimney AND over the firebed.

Often referred to as Over-the-fire draft. Most chimneys have excess draw that gets mitigated by the baro automatically- hence the weights and settings.

It is a balancing act initially. When in doubt or beginning, ALWAYS start with MORE DRAFT as mentioned above. Better to burn with some inefficiency than unsafely. You will dial it in as you go.

Once it is in true balance, with a baro properly set, you can usually only be concerned with over-the-fire draft...as long as you do not exceed the combustion air beyond the limits and pressurize...

So.......

How do you set this things?

1. Guess with starting points. Baro setup for .05-.08, warm fire, low combustion air setting.

2. LOOK at your fire. See the burn pattern and flames. Take pics, get opinions, etc. You want a "good quality burn pattern"

3. Each adjustment of feed rate and/or combustion air should be immediately followed by checking your chimney draft and over-the-fire draft.

4. Once you get the fire pattern as you want it, gradually lower the draft towards the stove manufacturer's design draft setting (in the installation manual) using the baro to check BOTH chimney and over the fire drafts, AND LIKELY reduce the combustion air just enough to keep your proper burn and not interfere with the draft. This usually takes a number of adjustments and burn times to dial-in

5. Once everything is done, do a SAFETY CHECK by turning off your combustion blower(s) and confirming you maintain at least a safe draft. Yes the fire may go out, but the key is to ensure NO CO or other gases go anywhere except up the chimney.


Power failures and equipment failures happen. The worst thing that should happen is an out-fire. Best thing is an idle fire that maintains itself until it runs out of fuel (to recover if the power is restored quickly)

Long post, hope it helps. ;)

 
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nepacoal
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Post by nepacoal » Mon. Nov. 25, 2019 5:51 pm

And just to be clear... You set the over fire draft while the stoker and fan are running, preferably during a long heat call of 30 to 45 minutes so your chimney is up to temp and you have a full fire.

 
arcticcatmatt
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Post by arcticcatmatt » Tue. Nov. 26, 2019 10:12 am

Crap. I work an hour from home. I opened the combustion air flap thinking that would lower draft at full burn. Apparently I misunderstood what someone said. I then took this video this morning at 6 am.. then drove to work. I'm now reading your posts on my break and I'm worried the house will fill with CO.. I'm taking the rest of the day off and driving home to undo my changes . Crap!

 
arcticcatmatt
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Post by arcticcatmatt » Wed. Nov. 27, 2019 2:02 pm

Cold air intake! Now sucking air from outside to burn.

Sound on -
Air intake installed outside -

Coal stove side. You can see as I move my draft gate the barometric damper moves and combustion fan noise changes to reflect. Ignore the sound coming from the rattling coat hanger on the front of the stove. I fixed that with screws after I turned off the camera.

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