Direct draft keystoker A -120 conversion

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ZEROINTEREST
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Post By: ZEROINTEREST » Tue. Oct. 02, 2018 9:37 pm

Hello folks
I live in Quebec where the winters are extremely cold and am in the process of installing a basement central heating system. I have the opportunity to purchase a Keystoker A 120 for 1000 $ 2013 model . For arguments sake let us assume that the furnace is in good working order and that all is well. My question for the present is would this model of furnace be convertible to DIRECT VENT through the wall as it is currently vented via a chimney ?. My house has a chimney but it is occupied by an Osburn wood stove insert which I want to keep.
Thank you so much for all and any responses.

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ZEROINTEREST
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Post By: ZEROINTEREST » Thu. Oct. 04, 2018 8:02 pm

So after talking with a very helpful gentleman at Keystoker I learned that this model can be Power vented as it is not set up for DV. My question now is will I be able to run a short pipe from the furnace to the wall then a 90 degree then up 10 ft then another 90 then through the wall and finally the fan? My basement is below ground and then of course what about the 4ft of snow ....doomed to install chimney?

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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Thu. Oct. 04, 2018 9:38 pm

Sorry, Got to ask, could you power vent the Osburn, and use the chimney for the Keystoker?

ZEROINTEREST
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Post By: ZEROINTEREST » Thu. Oct. 04, 2018 10:05 pm

Hey McGiever
Thanks for your interest
The Osburn is a wood insert so needs the chimney and its nice to have wood burning on the ground floor........I had it professionally installed last year but its not enough for the house which needs a central system.......I have spent a lot of time debating my options and this A 120 furnace really excites me .....thought about pellet and nearly pulled the trigger . Again I dont think 65000 btu pellet furnace would cut it ....and no offence to pellet lovers but I just read too many complaints of faulty program boards and unexplainable codes etc .......but I digress.....

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McGiever
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Posts: 7129
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Fri. Oct. 05, 2018 12:37 pm

ZEROINTEREST wrote:
Thu. Oct. 04, 2018 8:02 pm
So after talking with a very helpful gentleman at Keystoker I learned that this model can be Power vented as it is not set up for DV. My question now is will I be able to run a short pipe from the furnace to the wall then a 90 degree then up 10 ft then another 90 then through the wall and finally the fan? My basement is below ground and then of course what about the 4ft of snow ....doomed to install chimney?
So, 2- 90's with less than 20 feet total run...that's doable with a PV. Minimal horizontial run is a plus.
It won't be cheap...but has some attractions.

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McGiever
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Posts: 7129
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Fri. Oct. 05, 2018 12:37 pm

ZEROINTEREST wrote:
Thu. Oct. 04, 2018 8:02 pm
So after talking with a very helpful gentleman at Keystoker I learned that this model can be Power vented as it is not set up for DV. My question now is will I be able to run a short pipe from the furnace to the wall then a 90 degree then up 10 ft then another 90 then through the wall and finally the fan? My basement is below ground and then of course what about the 4ft of snow ....doomed to install chimney?
So, 2- 90's with less than 20 feet total run...that's doable with a PV. Minimal horizontial run is a plus.
It won't be cheap...but has some attractions.

ZEROINTEREST
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Joined: Tue. Oct. 02, 2018 8:49 pm

Post By: ZEROINTEREST » Fri. Oct. 05, 2018 9:20 pm

McGiever wrote:
Fri. Oct. 05, 2018 12:37 pm
So, 2- 90's with less than 20 feet total run...that's doable with a PV. Minimal horizontial run is a plus.
It won't be cheap...but has some attractions.
Hey McGiever
Was on the phone today again with Keystoker and seems there will be no problem with the 90s or the vertical length...so looks like alls good in that respect....as for expense for swg Field Control...... 800 Canadian.........so 1000 for furnace + 120 bags coal + 1000 ( with tax ) pv + 500 transport for furnace and bags .....not too bad if furnace works as it should?

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McGiever
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Posts: 7129
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Sat. Oct. 06, 2018 11:38 am

Keep us posted and we love pictures too.

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Post By: ZEROINTEREST » Tue. Oct. 16, 2018 11:57 pm

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McGiever wrote:
Sat. Oct. 06, 2018 11:38 am
Keep us posted and we love pictures too.
Hey McGiever and all folks
Sorry for the delay but have picked up the furnace ( wont go in to that ! ) and have striped it down to clean. So much filth and rust ! The metal is still solid though. I separated the furnace from the heat exchanger unit to better clean , the gasket between the joint was in good shape so i bolted them together using same . Q: Should I have used furnace cement ? I saw no trace. Unfortunately the hopper is badly rusted and will have to be patched but a more pressing problem is that I read in the manual that there is a flange that has to be bent into the throat of the stoker .....there is no flange .......also the two holding studs sheared off when previous owners tried to remove hopper for transport ...I dont have welding gear. Two bolts perhaps? I am replacing old gaskets on door and ash door .Q: How many gaskets on small door assembly? Also behind small door is a metal plate that was holding some unknown substance which had half disintegrated so I removed the rest ...Q: What is it and will I have to order from keystoker? I removed the stoker and cleaned the three plates and will have to re cement so info on that important job would be a real help. I also sanded the feeder with emery . So here are some pics.....as for power vent I am leaning to install chimney at the moment as It could be used for wood furnace if this little adventure comes to misfortune......
Attachments
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User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 7129
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: RICE,PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE and EGG / BIT
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post By: McGiever » Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 9:47 am

WOW! You have been busy there.
Good job on the pictures there partner!

I tried to break up your post some to allow folks to easier answer separate questions.
ZEROINTEREST wrote:
Tue. Oct. 16, 2018 11:57 pm

Hey McGiever and all folks
Sorry for the delay but have picked up the furnace ( wont go in to that ! ) and have striped it down to clean. So much filth and rust ! The metal is still solid though. I separated the furnace from the heat exchanger unit to better clean , the gasket between the joint was in good shape so i bolted them together using same .

Q: Should I have used furnace cement ? I saw no trace.

Unfortunately the hopper is badly rusted and will have to be patched but a more pressing problem is that I read in the manual that there is a flange that has to be bent into the throat of the stoker .....there is no flange .......also the two holding studs sheared off when previous owners tried to remove hopper for transport ...I dont have welding gear. Two bolts perhaps? I am replacing old gaskets on door and ash door .

Q: How many gaskets on small door assembly?
Also behind small door is a metal plate that was holding some unknown substance which had half disintegrated so I removed the rest ...
Q: What is it and will I have to order from keystoker?

I removed the stoker and cleaned the three plates and will have to re cement so info on that important job would be a real help. I also sanded the feeder with emery .

So here are some pics.....as for power vent I am leaning to install chimney at the moment as It could be used for wood furnace if this little adventure comes to misfortune......

ZEROINTEREST
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Joined: Tue. Oct. 02, 2018 8:49 pm

Post By: ZEROINTEREST » Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 11:33 am

McGiever wrote:
Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 9:47 am
WOW! You have been busy there.
Good job on the pictures there partner!

I tried to break up your post some to allow folks to easier answer separate questions.
Thanks McGiever for your help I appreciate it . Do you think I should change the thread to A 120 rebuild?
Anyway to continue . I took all three motors to my local electrical genius to check them out and to service them as needed. If all goes well I will do the annual service but I thought best to start off with them in good order ( Avoid ignition problems if and when there is a final countdown ).
The stoker looks to be in good shape with no signs of hopper fire . The nylon screws and cam seem to be in top shape which is a relief. I think one of my problems will be the setting up of the feeder and timer etc as I dont think that there are too many keystoker experts in my area as wood is the fuel of choice so I am afraid I will be dependent on the help of strangers ........So for now a few more pics and a few more questions.

To start with a level baseline I turned the adjusting rod all the way anticlockwise so now the connecting bar is level with the edge of the aperture ( See pic ). When pulled out the bar is at an angle (see pic ).
Q; Under normal conditions where should the bar be?

Q; Should I put stoker gasket on stoker or on furnace panel?
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Thanks to you and all folks...

ZEROINTEREST
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Post By: ZEROINTEREST » Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 11:41 am

ZEROINTEREST wrote:
Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 11:33 am
Thanks McGiever for your help I appreciate it . Do you think I should change the thread to A 120 rebuild?
Anyway to continue . I took all three motors to my local electrical genius to check them out and to service them as needed. If all goes well I will do the annual service but I thought best to start off with them in good order ( Avoid ignition problems if and when there is a final countdown ).
The stoker looks to be in good shape with no signs of hopper fire . The nylon screws and cam seem to be in top shape which is a relief. I think one of my problems will be the setting up of the feeder and timer etc as I dont think that there are too many keystoker experts in my area as wood is the fuel of choice so I am afraid I will be dependent on the help of strangers ........So for now a few more pics and a few more questions.

To start with a level baseline I turned the adjusting rod all the way anticlockwise so now the connecting bar is level with the edge of the aperture ( See pic ). When pulled out the bar is at an angle (see pic ).
Q; Under normal conditions where should the bar be?

Q; Should I put stoker gasket on stoker or on furnace panel?
InkedDSC_0079_LI.jpgInkedDSC_0079_LI.jpgInkedDSC_0080_LI.jpg

Thanks to you and all folks...

Humm problem with pics..
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Bar level with aperture
InkedDSC_0080_LI.jpg
Bar at angle

nepacoal
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-260 - retired
Coal Size/Type: Buck
Location: NEPA

Post By: nepacoal » Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 2:15 pm

I'll try to answer what I can...

manual that there is a flange that has to be bent into the throat of the stoker .....there is no flange ....... Per Keystoker, one hopper can fit several units. depending on the opening below at the stoker unit, some may need to be cut at 45 degrees in each corner and bent down into the stoker opening. If yours is open enough and feeds enough coal, no need to cut and bend it down.

Q: How many gaskets on small door assembly? - mine has one flat gasket on the small fire door. I mounted the frame to the boiler with high temp RTV. Can also use Rutland or other stove cement

Q: Also behind small door is a metal plate that was holding some unknown substance which had half disintegrated so I removed the rest ... Mine has some type of high temp insulation. looks like rock wool or could be ceramic based

I removed the stoker and cleaned the three plates and will have to re cement so info on that important job would be a real help. I also sanded the feeder with emery . Be sure to use an 1/8 inch drill bit (by hand) or punch to clean out each of those holes in the burner plates.

To adjust your stoker feed, turn white knob all the way in clockwise and then back out 5 turns to start. Once you get a fire going, you will fine tune that white knob to get 1 to 2 inches of ash on the end after a 30 minute (or longer) burn cycle. Turn it clockwise to increase coal feed, counter-clockwise to slow it down. (FYI, the newer stoker motors that are 1.75 RPM (go around in 34 seconds) will need to be backed out 8 or so turns to start).
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nepacoal
Member
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed. Nov. 21, 2012 7:49 am
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-260 - retired
Coal Size/Type: Buck
Location: NEPA

Post By: nepacoal » Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Heatinc100 has some decent videos on YouTube showing where the cement goes on the burner plates along with cleaning the holes... Link to the videos on their website or you can search YouTube. Be sure to smooth out the cement on the plates before it dries. You don't want any snags to slow down the coal moving down the burner plates.

https://www.heetinc.com/videos/

ZEROINTEREST
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Post By: ZEROINTEREST » Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 4:12 pm

nepacoal wrote:
Wed. Oct. 17, 2018 2:15 pm
I'll try to answer what I can...

manual that there is a flange that has to be bent into the throat of the stoker .....there is no flange ....... Per Keystoker, one hopper can fit several units. depending on the opening below at the stoker unit, some may need to be cut at 45 degrees in each corner and bent down into the stoker opening. If yours is open enough and feeds enough coal, no need to cut and bend it down.

Q: How many gaskets on small door assembly? - mine has one flat gasket on the small fire door. I mounted the frame to the boiler with high temp RTV. Can also use Rutland or other stove cement

Q: Also behind small door is a metal plate that was holding some unknown substance which had half disintegrated so I removed the rest ... Mine has some type of high temp insulation. looks like rock wool or could be ceramic based

I removed the stoker and cleaned the three plates and will have to re cement so info on that important job would be a real help. I also sanded the feeder with emery . Be sure to use an 1/8 inch drill bit (by hand) or punch to clean out each of those holes in the burner plates.

To adjust your stoker feed, turn white knob all the way in clockwise and then back out 5 turns to start. Once you get a fire going, you will fine tune that white knob to get 1 to 2 inches of ash on the end after a 30 minute (or longer) burn cycle. Turn it clockwise to increase coal feed, counter-clockwise to slow it down. (FYI, the newer stoker motors that are 1.75 RPM (go around in 34 seconds) will need to be backed out 8 or so turns to start).
Thanks so much nepacoal
I am now waiting to have two studs welded to the stoker that fasten the side panels . I managed to snap two even after soaking with wd.........which brings up another question,

Are the side panels simply bolted on or are there gaskets or cement applied before being bolted down with all the crud it was impossible to tell...... I could see that cement had been applied to the sides of the fire grates as well as between the gaps on top up to where the air holes start...cant really see the necessity for cement on the side panels though .As for the stuff on the inside of the door I will make further inquiries as to what it is and where to get some....

Many thanks

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