Time for new stove?

 
Goodcoal
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Econo 90
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Post by Goodcoal » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 11:25 am

I’ve been using this site for a few years as I learn how to best utilize my old 1992 Keystoker 90k stove. Lots of good advice to be found, so I thought I’d post.
The stove I have is obviously older, but I’ve replaced glass, gaskets, both blowers, cleaned an recemented grate, added damper, manometer, and tried to maintain to the best of my ability.

I have about 1000 sq ft basement with 1000 sq ft first floor, and the stove does a decent job until it gets below 20 outside. I have a small 4 inch duct from front of stove to living room upstairs, open stairway is cold air return. Mix of old and newer windows upstairs.

Below 20 outside and the stove struggles to go above 64ish. Do I stand to benefit from a newer 105k but stove with electronic controls, or do you think I’m pretty much maxed out for what I have in my house? I do not have ducting in my house, just the makeshift 4 inch from stove to register. I like the idea of updating stove, but I’m not sure it’s worth the investment for just 15k btu.

Any thoughts?


 
Den034071
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Post by Den034071 » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 11:43 am

Basement walls insulated .

 
Goodcoal
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Econo 90
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Post by Goodcoal » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 11:51 am

Basement is insulated. Carpet and pad over much of the floor. Newer slider doors installed. I’ll post some pics of my setup when I get a chance.

 
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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 12:38 pm

Goodcoal wrote:
Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 11:25 am
I’ve been using this site for a few years as I learn how to best utilize my old 1992 Keystoker 90k stove. Lots of good advice to be found, so I thought I’d post.
The stove I have is obviously older, but I’ve replaced glass, gaskets, both blowers, cleaned an recemented grate, added damper, manometer, and tried to maintain to the best of my ability.

I have about 1000 sq ft basement with 1000 sq ft first floor, and the stove does a decent job until it gets below 20 outside. I have a small 4 inch duct from front of stove to living room upstairs, open stairway is cold air return. Mix of old and newer windows upstairs.

Below 20 outside and the stove struggles to go above 64ish. Do I stand to benefit from a newer 105k but stove with electronic controls, or do you think I’m pretty much maxed out for what I have in my house? I do not have ducting in my house, just the makeshift 4 inch from stove to register. I like the idea of updating stove, but I’m not sure it’s worth the investment for just 15k btu.

Any thoughts?
Hello Goodcoal! where are you located? I have a box stove with a blower that needs a home :idea:

 
Goodcoal
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Econo 90
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Post by Goodcoal » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 2:33 pm

I’m near Schuylkill Haven, PA, where they make the Keystokers. Coal stoves are alive and well around here.

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 2:42 pm

Seems like a 90k BTU unit shouldn't have any problem heating 2000 sq ft.

Is the basement much hotter than the first floor? Maybe you just need to distribute the heat better. A single 4 inch duct to heat the first floor isn't very much.

How many pounds per day do you use when running it wide open?

 
Starting Out
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Post by Starting Out » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 2:48 pm

If you are near Haven, call Don at Keystoker and ask him. What better way to solve a problem than to ask the manufacturer.


 
Goodcoal
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Econo 90
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Post by Goodcoal » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 3:14 pm

I’ve talked to Don a few times for different reasons, but he seems to think that there are too many variables without actually being able to come out and look at the setup. Being cheap and wanting to avoid a service call charge to have someone just look, I thought that I could get some similar input to what people do through this forum.

I agree that one 4 inch duct is a likely culprit, but I’m pressed for headroom with an already finished ceiling. Maybe the box-style ducting would give me some more options? The basement is hotter than the upstairs, but below 70. I set the Tstat at 72 downstairs and the actual temperature hasn’t been able to get that high down there, but the stove is double Walled and I think that I’m getting the air to move up to the second floor. Just not as hot as I’d thought to could get.

I had the stove running full stroke during our recent single digit streak here for about two weeks, used probably two five gallon buckets a day. Got the fire to right at the edge of the grate, had also mixed in buck since I had some clinker issues earlier in the year.

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 3:41 pm

Okay, so two five gallon buckets per day (80 pounds roughly) puts you at around 42k BTU input. That seems legit for 2000 sq ft at 20 degrees, provided your house isn't very tight and/or not insulated real well.

Some pics will help, if you could, and the stoker guys will have more suggestions. ;)

 
DENNIS BAUER
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Post by DENNIS BAUER » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 3:52 pm

So Goodcoal, something I had going on with the Ecno 70 I had before I changed my stove up. The top heat exchanger, the area between the fire box and the top of the stove was PACKED full of fly ash. The stove was in my house when I bought it so I have no idea how long it'd been since it was cleaned. I removed the chimney and slide a small shop vac hose up in there and was able to clean that area up. Also used a small dry vent tube cleaner to get to everything I couldn't reach with the vac. The difference in temp was amazing. That fly ash is a great insulator! An insulator that you don't want in this case.

Just something that I ran into with mine. Good luck.

 
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Post by titleist1 » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 3:56 pm

What is the temp of the air coming out that register upstairs?

I think you will need more than just the basement steps as the return to help circulate the warm air upstairs. Maybe do some upgrade to the windows to limit air infiltration too? I don't think you will see much difference with the 105k BTU unit.

I have a similar set up with a harman mag stoker (~90k btu's) in an unfinished basement (semi-insulated block walls) and it heats the upstairs to the 'stat setting of 69 until it gets down below 10 without wind (15 - 20 with some wind). We are heating 1500 sqft basement and 1800 sqft upstairs. I have two returns in addition to the stairway and only use the stairway as the supply, no ducting coming off the stove (I tried the ducting but didn't do any better with it). We are well insulated and have good windows. I started with just the stairwell but added the returns in the far bedrooms and it made a difference as more heat pulled upstairs as the cooler air dropped back to the basement toward the stoker. Each house is different however so some experimenting may be needed.

edit to add.....guestimating my coal usage at about 90lbs per day in this cold snap.

 
CDF_USAF
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Post by CDF_USAF » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 4:12 pm

If the stove is clean and operating right. You could try using a small fan at the top of the stairs to encourage more cold air down, so the hot air will be more apt to rise. Cold air is denser and typically easier to move than hot.

 
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europachris
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Post by europachris » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 4:46 pm

DENNIS BAUER wrote:
Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 3:52 pm
So Goodcoal, something I had going on with the Ecno 70 I had before I changed my stove up. The top heat exchanger, the area between the fire box and the top of the stove was PACKED full of fly ash. The stove was in my house when I bought it so I have no idea how long it'd been since it was cleaned. I removed the chimney and slide a small shop vac hose up in there and was able to clean that area up. Also used a small dry vent tube cleaner to get to everything I couldn't reach with the vac. The difference in temp was amazing. That fly ash is a great insulator! An insulator that you don't want in this case.
+1 When I picked up my Keystoker from Greg's place (LsFarm), we tipped it on it's side and loaded it into the back of my VW Jetta TDI wagon. In the process of moving and tipping it back and forth during the transit and refurb process I'm guessing at least half a 5 gallon bucket of fly ash fell out of the upper reaches of the stove. I was dumbfounded as it just kept coming out! I'm wondering if the previous owner wasn't getting enough heat out of it and got rid of it for something else?

But after I was done with it I know it was clean as it really poured out the heat on very little coal. To keep it that way, I bought a dishwasher drain hose kit (I think that's what it was) that was grey rubbery PVC with wire reinforcement that was the perfect size and stiffness. I taped one end into my shop vac hose and then snaked the other end way up into the nether regions of the Keystoker (up each side of the firebox and over the top). I only burned a ton or two a season but would vacuum it out at the halfway point and at the end after I shut it down. It may have been super efficient but what a pain in the arse to keep clean!

Chris

 
Goodcoal
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Econo 90
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Post by Goodcoal » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 6:38 pm

I knew posting here would provide some real insight. Thanks for the feedback!
Some pictures of the stove below. I too had loads of built up ash from the previous owner, but it took until funky sulfur smells started to back up through the hopper for me to think about gasses backing up because of blockages. The last eight years I’ve vacuumed where I could see after the season, but this year was the first where I took the radiator brush to the “nether regions” of this stove. it has been better than in the past, but I’m still not sure how to maximize my heat upstairs.

Attachments

926780CC-753E-4084-B47F-AC9FDB9ACF8C.jpeg

Pusher block looks crooked - just noticed this when taking the pic

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Probably losing some heat going around that beam

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One branch of duct is usually blocked off, this was an experiment that made the bedroom too hot to sleep

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Outside air terminating near combustion blower

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Stove feed and thermostat down tonight, 45 is the low outside


 
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michaelanthony
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Post by michaelanthony » Thu. Jan. 11, 2018 8:02 pm

I counted six 90's too many...every turn is resistance. Keep in mind the return air ducts to most if not all heating appliances are bigger than the supply lines.


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