Want to supplement my Geothermal heatpump

 
tommaher
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Other Heating: Geothermal heat pump

Post by tommaher » Sat. Jan. 06, 2018 3:37 pm

I live in southwestern PA. I have been thinking about adding a supplemental heat source to my geothermal hvac. It is a forced air system that is located in my basement. It is able to heat better than conventional electric heat pumps, but in the dead of winter, it does get overwhelmed and turns on the electric auxilliary heat which is $$$$$$$$. Anyway, I do not have a way to add a chimney so I was thinking of adding an anthracite coal system and use the thru the wall vent system. If I add one, is there a way to get the heat from the coal throughout my house? I kinda thought I would be able to tap into my main outflow ductwork and let the gravity heat make it out through the home? Or, I could tap into the return ducting so that it goes through the filters and then gets pushed through the home by the existing furnace blower if I leave it in the on position. Would I need the coal furnace to have it's own blower or look for one that is just basic gravity flow? I have a 2200 sq ft ranch that has a well insulated, superior wall full basement under it. There is also approx 200 sq ft of bonus room space that is on a second level above the main level that I would love to be able to heat too. It has a separate zone of existing ductwork to it from the geothermal unit. I have no idea if this will harm my furnace at all by adding an external heat source into existing ducts. I can't imagine it would.

I know there are a bunch of questions that might come back at me, but shoot them this way and I'll field them. Thanks for any and all input.


 
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philthy
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Post by philthy » Sat. Jan. 06, 2018 10:43 pm

Either or. You could get a properly sized stove/furnace with a large enough blower and tie into the outflow. Or, you could run it into the return and have it wired so that when a target temp is reached it kicks on the main furnace fan to distribute it through the home. Some don't like it done that way and some do but I think it would be fine.

There is about a hundred different ways you could go about it. Lucky for you you've come to the right place for information. Give it a little, others will be along to help out.

 
CoaLen
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Post by CoaLen » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 8:19 am

Welcome to the coal forum. You've come to the right place to get answers/opinions on everything related to burning coal.

For what it's worth, my situation is similar to yours, except my heat source was propane.
We decided to install a Keystoker Koker furnace in the basement. The salesman/installer connected the Koker's heat output into the propane furnace cold air return and wired the Koker's convection blower to turn on the propane blower. I questioned this arrangement at the time but he insisted it was the correct way to do it. Well, it turned out to be wrong in a few different ways and after the first winter season, I reinstalled the furnace, connecting the Koker's heat duct to the propane furnace plenum and the convection blower to the existing cold air return run. This does require dampers between the Koker and the propane furnace to separate the two systems. During this reinstall I also went through the duct system sealing up all my connection points for maximum efficiency. So today, when the thermostat calls for heat and the Koker blower comes on I get hot air coming through all the vents throughout the house. When the blower isn't running, I still have heat rising through the warm air vents.
My wife and I have been very happy with the coal furnace.

Here's some background on my coal furnace experience:
My Koker Experience (So Far) II

Good luck with your project!
-Len

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 10:21 am

Sure it can be done...you want good, better or best?

 
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philthy
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Post by philthy » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 10:51 am

CoaLen wrote:
Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 8:19 am
Well, it turned out to be wrong in a few different ways and after the first winter season, I reinstalled the furnace, connecting the Koker's heat duct to the propane furnace plenum and the convection blower to the existing cold air return run. This does require dampers between the Koker and the propane furnace to separate the two systems.
Separating the furnaces can be a pain if you don't have the right tools but a little creativity goes a long way. This is how mine is set up - going into plenum. I have a koker lite which will not keep in weather like we had over the past 2 weeks so being able to separate between coal furnace and oil furnace is important. My thought is if you bought a furnace that you know will carry the load 100% of the time you wouldn't have to worry about dampers because your geo-thermal would never kick on. Like I said, I have the koker lite. But the full size koker might do the trick. There are several other makes that others can recommend.

 
tommaher
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Other Heating: Geothermal heat pump

Post by tommaher » Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 1:09 pm

McGiever wrote:
Sun. Jan. 07, 2018 10:21 am
Sure it can be done...you want good, better or best?
McGiever, I don't want to break the bank. I know I will be into it for a a few thousand$ though. I would like to keep the grand total at or below 5K if possible.

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 1:26 am

Tom, would also having the DHW being heated at the same time be an attractive bonus?


 
tommaher
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Other Heating: Geothermal heat pump

Post by tommaher » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 8:16 am

I have the DHW being pre-heated by the geothermal, but I suppose that if we take it out of the equation, that the hot water will have to be completely heated by my instantaneous electric.

 
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BlackBetty06
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Post by BlackBetty06 » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 12:14 pm

Whatever you do, DO NOT HOOK THAT COAL STOKER UP TO THE RETURN SIDE OF THE HEATPUMP!!! You will drive your head pressure up astronomically and cause high pressure lockouts all the time and or a ridiculously high standing pressure. Im assuming also that your geo is R410A which will make the pressure higher yet.

 
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Post by coalnewbie » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 3:31 pm

AK110/Pocono, SWG, all driven by a thermostat/coaltrol. Search this board. Hot air rises and the forced air already moving will fix everything and save a ton of electricity. That is it lights out. ROI 3/5 years. Quick, not cheap .. you know the saying pick two out of three.

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 9:08 pm

I have Geo also, and with used rebuilt stoker coal boiler. Plumbed in a coal boiler zone to a air over water coil in return air duct and use the HP thermostat's Aux Ht setting to trigger HP Relay to the zone pump...Geo compressor is disabled. Works a treat and was a DIY job for myself, so wasn't any more cost than a new stove/furnace install. Plumbed a second zone to a indirect HW tank and carry that load there also all winter...bought indirect used off Craigslist too.
Come summer I run the AC flat out so saving a lot of HP wear and tear plus saving big on electric w/ coal carrying all that load all thru winter was a great ROI. :yes:

 
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Post by k-2 » Tue. Jan. 09, 2018 10:12 am

Im surprised to hear GEO users switching to coal. I was under the impression BTUs from GEO were on par with coal. Unless of course the unit is a bit undersized and the back up resistance heat comes on a lot driving up the cost back up closer to electric resistance heat.

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Jan. 09, 2018 11:48 am

k-2 wrote:
Tue. Jan. 09, 2018 10:12 am
Im surprised to hear GEO users switching to coal. I was under the impression BTUs from GEO were on par with coal. Unless of course the unit is a bit undersized and the back up resistance heat comes on a lot driving up the cost back up closer to electric resistance heat.
Some folks like WARM heat,not that COOL heat from those heat pumps.

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Tue. Jan. 09, 2018 12:26 pm

I'll give vou that!
Few ever hear good talk about HP, but few really know more than what they hear, but I digress...

 
k-2
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Post by k-2 » Tue. Jan. 09, 2018 3:23 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:
Tue. Jan. 09, 2018 11:48 am
Some folks like WARM heat,not that COOL heat from those heat pumps.
For the cost of those things 15 to 30K. I know a few people who have em ,but if your like my family that likes the place 80 degrees all winter ,may not be the best choice.


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