Want to supplement my Geothermal heatpump

coalnewbie wrote: ↑

Mon. Jan. 08, 2018 3:31 pm

AK110/Pocono, SWG, all driven by a thermostat/coaltrol. Search this board. Hot air rises and the forced air already moving will fix everything and save a ton of electricity. That is it lights out. ROI 3/5 years. Quick, not cheap .. you know the saying pick two out of three.

Sorry coalnewbie, you're going to have to dumb it down a little bit for me. I am extremely new to all of this, so the abbreviations need explained a bit....

k-2 wrote: ↑

Tue. Jan. 09, 2018 10:12 am

Im surprised to hear GEO users switching to coal. I was under the impression BTUs from GEO were on par with coal. Unless of course the unit is a bit undersized and the back up resistance heat comes on a lot driving up the cost back up closer to electric resistance heat.

I guess it's entirely possible that it is undersized. It's a 5 ton unit though. The back up comes on though when we drop into the teens for a few days, then it seems entirely counterproductive because the resistance coil heating is a fortune due to electric rates.

SWG=Exhaust fan on stovepipe.
ROI=Return of investment.

tommaher wrote: ↑

Wed. Jan. 10, 2018 8:26 pm

I guess it's entirely possible that it is undersized. It's a 5 ton unit though. The back up comes on though when we drop into the teens for a few days, then it seems entirely counterproductive because the resistance coil heating is a fortune due to electric rates.

Hope that unit is a 2 stage! A 5 Ton unit can only make how ever many tons the loop can provide, since Aux heat is running you must be short on loop capacity.

What is your thermostat make/model? I run a ecobee and it let's you tailor same of the parameters which are many custom combinations of which some that can make it less easy for Aux Ht to come on. Many factory thermostats lack any bells and whistle for custom fine tuning.

tommaher wrote: ↑

Wed. Jan. 10, 2018 8:26 pm

it seems entirely counterproductive because the resistance coil heating is a fortune due to electric rates.

What are your rates if i may ask,im paying about 10c KWH here in Pa.

I guess it's entirely possible that it is undersized. It's a 5 ton unit though

and that is 60,000btu if everything is perfect. I talked to the Waterfactory people some years ago and besides mind numbing costs the output was just not enough. I rejected solar and heat pumps for the same reason. A supplemental coal stove will serve you well.

The reason I picked the AK110 is that it has very little internal resistance is very adjustable and can be linked in any number of ways. However, this is way out of my league and good luck. A suggestion is that placing a AK 110 besides your fancy unit would work very well but I am not a heating engineer. I was not being obscure as the search box on this board will pick up a mind numbing amount of information on all these abbreviations. It's winter I am bored and pics will help us give more suggestions. Who installed your geo unit?

More thoughts ... as geo is low power the engineers start by superinsulating the house. The trouble with most coal stoves is the make up air has to come from somewhere. However, there are exceptions. Would this stove in your living room be offensive to you ...

Coalnewbie is right about superinsulating the house. Thats a major project(and expense) in itself. When its done correctly. ANY heat source is low cost as your BTU requirements shrink drastically. My thoughts on that were, well then after all that why go the whole expensive route of thermal wells or trenches and the whole high expense of GEO at all. Couple the super insulation with a small solid fuel heater (coal or wood or pellets)or some solar or any number of lower cost heat sources,even oil or gas. But if youve got it already ,and its not cutting the mustard you will need to either upgrade the insulation or give it some help with auxiliary additional heat during very cold spells. As is, it should work fine in shoulder season.

Of course, this is a coal board but there are other options. As 60,000 btu is thought to be adequate originally then another 20-50,000 btu will help enormously and there are many options. Let us know what you think. As you are near those massive gas fields, I assume you have NG. In which case a Rinnai 40,000btu is air neutral, has a small footprint and is maintenance free.

Yeah, this is a coal board but we are a Full Service Coal Board.

Closed Loop Geo, like any other closed loop system can have things not quite proper with the loop that would impair getting the designed heat output...we see that here often w/ hydonic heating system. A Closed Loop w/o the system having total air removal can really drag down performance due to air pockets hindering full flow capacity...anything less than full and you never will get the full potential.

That being said, the OP might want to have a service tech to do the performance calculations.
It is not difficult to see just what the Water Side Analysis/Closed Loop performance is as a first measure.
Refrigerant Side is sealed and set by factory and would be a last measure after all other options are exhausted.

Thanks guys. The GEO unit was installed prior to my buying the home. It was installed by a local dealer who seems pretty reputable. They do not believe it's undersized, they just feel that due to the cold stretches, it can not keep up. My wife wants it to be 72 in the house, which is partly the problem I'm sure. We do have NG available and already in the home for the kitchen stove and a small vent free fireplace in the living room. I became intrigued by the stokers and was kind of picturing it as a focal point in the basement in the future finished area. I was really giving a lot of consideration to just jumping it into the hot air duct work at the far side of the ranch style basement to compensate for any heat loss and CFM loss over the course of the ducting. McGiever, maybe I do need to look into troubleshooting some more.

If it can't keep the home at 72°, it's undersized.

and that is why you are the moderator.

If it can't keep the house at 75* it is undersized.