Help me get my Grandmother burning coal

 
fastlane4
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 7:51 pm

I'm looking for some help installing a coal stove in my grandmother's house. She currently has a wood burning insert in her basement. Her and my grandfather burnt wood their entire lives, however he passed away in 2004. I've been cutting and splitting all her wood ever since but it's still a lot of work for her. She's almost 75. We store the wood in her garage but she has to lug it all in her house and tend the stove frequently. I've been using a Harman magnum in my own home for 3 years now and I love it. I have her convinced it'll be much easier than wood.
My problem is i dont know how to install a stove to a chimney that was built for an insert. We looked at the coal burning inserts from Hitzer but I think they require almost as much work as wood.

Here's my plan: block off the insert with sheet metal and fire proof silicone. Use some fiberglass insulation to help block off the smoke shelf where there used to be a damper and add a thimble to connect to the stove.

Will this work? I've added a photo of roughly what I want to do as well as several photos of her current setup.

Her chimney has a clay liner. It's roughly 6 1/2"x10". My plan was to install the thimble at about 5' from the bottom mantle. Would be just above the shelf in the pictures.

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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 8:27 pm

For single pipe,you will need to stay 18" away from combustibles like the floor joists .
BUT...
Why can't you hook the coal stove to the chimney the same way as the wood stove is/was ???

I seem to be looking at 2 different fireplaces in your pics... maybe i am confused ?

 
fastlane4
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 8:50 pm

My mistake. The last 2 photos are the same. I just got them off of google to show my plan. I wanted to use a solid plate to block that off.
I found a used harman that I want to get for her. It has the outlet on top of the stove. I didn't think I could hook it up like that because the pipe would travel down before going up. That's why I was planning to add a thimble.
I believe that photo was from someone installing an insert into a fireplace.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 8:57 pm

Seems like the easy way would be to buy a stove vented in the rear,but doing the block-off plate & a higher thimble will work too.

 
fastlane4
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:02 pm

Yeah I agree. But I can get much lower prices on used stoves. I also like the idea of her having a similar stove to mine if she would run into any problems.

Any thoughts on needing to add insulation?

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:09 pm

If you block the air flow,fiberglass insulation will help keep more heat in. But fiberglass doesn't block air flow very well,it only filters it.

 
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Post by franco b » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:14 pm

Tell your grandmother she will only have to carry in half the weight of coal compared to wood. Tending every 12 hours.

With you splitting and cutting the wood, that sounds like free fuel to me. Who will pay for the coal? Can she handle a 40 or 50 pound sack?

Basement installations mean poor distribution to upper floors, and fireplace installations make cleaning the chimney awkward. Are there any other possibilities? Is natural gas available?

That chimney is loaded with creosote and needs a thorough wire brushing. The set up you picture is good except for the difficulty of installing an insert and getting at the chimney to clean. Free standing is better and better still on the first floor except for carrying coal up stairs and ash down.

If you do go for coal, get a stove with hopper and thermostat for easiest and quickest tending. you could check what DS Machine has to offer as well.


 
fastlane4
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:40 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:09 pm
If you block the air flow,fiberglass insulation will help keep more heat in. But fiberglass doesn't block air flow very well,it only filters it.
What else can be used to block some airflow? I was thinking I should block as much as I can between the block off plate and the thimble.

 
fastlane4
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Post by fastlane4 » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:48 pm

franco b wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:14 pm
Tell your grandmother she will only have to carry in half the weight of coal compared to wood. Tending every 12 hours.

With you splitting and cutting the wood, that sounds like free fuel to me. Who will pay for the coal? Can she handle a 40 or 50 pound sack?

Basement installations mean poor distribution to upper floors, and fireplace installations make cleaning the chimney awkward. Are there any other possibilities? Is natural gas available?

That chimney is loaded with creosote and needs a thorough wire brushing. The set up you picture is good except for the difficulty of installing an insert and getting at the chimney to clean. Free standing is better and better still on the first floor except for carrying coal up stairs and ash down.

If you do go for coal, get a stove with hopper and thermostat for easiest and quickest tending. you could check what DS Machine has to offer as well.
She's convinced it will be less work. She's in great shape for 75.

The wood is free (300 acre farm) and although I don't mind cutting it I think she feels guilty that I have to do it for her. There is an oil hot air furnace in her house. She has the budget for coal. The oil furnace doesn't create the same kind of heat as wood/coal as we all know so she isn't interested in only using that.
I'm planning to build a coal bin in her basement close to the stove so she'll only have to scoop it out of the bin into the hopper.

I was in the process of cleaning the chimney when I took the photos.

I've pretty much already decided I'm getting a used Harman stove for sale locally. I like how mine works. I just want to make sure I get the install done correctly.

 
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Post by franco b » Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 10:13 pm

fastlane4 wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:48 pm
I've pretty much already decided I'm getting a used Harman stove for sale locally. I like how mine works. I just want to make sure I get the install done correctly.
I have used fiberglass to seal a chimney pipe and found it works well. Windy is correct that it can pass air but not very easily if thick. An advantage is that it is easy to install and easy if you need to gain access to the chimney.

The Harman is a fine stove. Just make sure she understands how to avoid puff backs when loading; to wait for those blue flames before closing down.

The coal bin will make buying bulk coal cheaper and make filling a coal scuttle easier for her.

 
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Post by Qtown1835 » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 6:19 am

fastlane4 wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:40 pm
windyhill4.2 wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:09 pm
If you block the air flow,fiberglass insulation will help keep more heat in. But fiberglass doesn't block air flow very well,it only filters it.
What else can be used to block some airflow? I was thinking I should block as much as I can between the block off plate and the thimble.
I used Roxul to fill my smoke chamber when I did a similar install. I feel it works better than fiberglass(plus no itch) and it is reasonably priced. I parked my Hartman stove in front of the hearth and piped into the existing flue. My Harman was a rear flue MK III

 
fastlane4
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Post by fastlane4 » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 10:32 am

Qtown1835 wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 6:19 am
fastlane4 wrote:
Sat. Nov. 04, 2017 9:40 pm

What else can be used to block some airflow? I was thinking I should block as much as I can between the block off plate and the thimble.
I used Roxul to fill my smoke chamber when I did a similar install. I feel it works better than fiberglass(plus no itch) and it is reasonably priced. I parked my Hartman stove in front of the hearth and piped into the existing flue. My Harman was a rear flue MK III
Have any pictures?

 
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freetown fred
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Post by freetown fred » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:23 pm

Fiberglass packed properly will & has for yrs, work excellent.

 
fastlane4
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Post by fastlane4 » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 3:37 pm

freetown fred wrote:
Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 1:23 pm
Fiberglass packed properly will & has for yrs, work excellent.
Any advice on packing it properly or how much to use? Any certain thickness I should be using?

 
rjc862003
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Post by rjc862003 » Sun. Nov. 05, 2017 6:39 pm

that chimney is a fire waiting to happen (seriously thats up there in some of the worst I have seen)

a block-off plate is fine do not skimp on the sealant

draft will do a lot but better safe then dead

here is a tip if you can extend the side of the thimble going up the chimney by one or two length of pipe then (optional)

cut two 4 or 6 inch holes on either-side and get your self matching thimbles (please do this if you go for a semi non removable plate )


as a further measure you may want to support the block off plate from the bottom with either pipe or a stack of bricks
I have also seen them hinged with concrete anchors and a fiberglass/or heavy wide rope seal
so the entire thing can be dropped down and out of the way for cleaning and inspection


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