Suggestions on Battery Backup for Harman Super Magnum?

 
guysnydr
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Post by guysnydr » Sat. Jan. 14, 2017 9:45 am

Was just wondering if what you guys are running for battery backups on your stokers? I bought a Super Magnum recently and want to have an automatic switching inverter / charger in place with a deep cycle battery or two.

I am looking to avoid having to get up in the middle of the night and fool with hooking something up, and also have some peace of mind when we lose power & we aren't home. If I could come up with something that would operate the stove for at last a 4 or 5 hours I would be satisfied, more than that would be great.

I have a small generator that I can run for longer outages when needed. I also have a regular old manual inverter, but I don't want something I have to mess with. What I am looking for is an "inverter/charger with an automatic transfer switch" like a UPS for computers would operate. I want it to use deep cycle batteries (since I already own one or two) and kick in automatically when the power goes out, then automatically switch back to A/C when the power is restored so there is no interruption.

I have done "some" research on them and I see the local Harman dealer offers one with Harman labels on it, but it looks like those are actually made by SureFire and are called a "Stove Sentry 512". These run darn near $500 though! I found a couple of Tripp Lites that are less expensive. Model APS700 and APS750. I think these would work?

Anyway, what are you guys running that have setups like I am describing?? Any suggestions are appreciated. I am looking for something a little more affordable than the Harman/SureFire option.

Thanks very much in advance!

Guy


 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Sat. Jan. 14, 2017 9:53 am

Guy, be patient - I know there are some guys on here that have put their own system together. Hopefully some of them will chip in.

There are also some older threads on this:

Backup Power Supply

UPS Battery Backup for KA6?

UPS Units

Somewhat related - Larry built a small off-grid solar system with batteries: Small Off Grid Solar System ... I'm Taking the Solar Plunge

 
guysnydr
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Location: Williamsport PA
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Super Magnum
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Post by guysnydr » Sat. Jan. 14, 2017 11:43 am

Thanks, I have lots of time as I am not going to hook up the Super mag until sometime this summer. Just want to have everything in place for fall. So plenty of time.

I had posted this question within another post but I think the battery backup questions got missed in the mix. Figured have better luck with a dedicated post. I am sure the subject has been hit on. I read through some of them, but many seemed to go off original topic and ended up becoming other conversations. LOL Imagine that... :D

Anyway, thanks all for any help.

 
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Doby
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Post by Doby » Sat. Jan. 14, 2017 1:27 pm

I had posted this question within another post but I think the battery backup questions got missed in the mix. Figured have better luck with a dedicated post. I am sure the subject has been hit on. I read through some of them, but many seemed to go off original topic and ended up becoming other conversations
Yep thats why we all need to make a effort to stay on topic! This is not a knock and I am guilty as the rest, but I wish the mods would point this out more.

See i'm doing it now

 
guysnydr
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Post by guysnydr » Sat. Jan. 14, 2017 2:11 pm

Right, definitely not a knock, it is easy to do. Just makes it difficult when trying to find actual answers at times. Can be a lot to weed through.

 
CapeCoaler
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sat. Jan. 14, 2017 6:46 pm

Tripp lite...
Sine wave for electronics...
https://www.tripplite.com/products/inverters-inverterchargers~18
Pick your poison...

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Sat. Jan. 14, 2017 8:08 pm

With enough batteries capacity planned in, one can choose when and how long he wishes to run that dang generator...for recharge. :P


 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Sat. Jan. 14, 2017 9:56 pm

Seems like we're dancing around the question, so I'll redirect.

WHAT SIZE/capacity would be good (VA) for the OP's needs?

 
CapeCoaler
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 2:57 am

Super stoker spec is 3.1.amps @115 volts...
Call it 356 watts...
1000 watt sine-wave inverter...
https://www.tripplite.com/1000w-powerverter-aps-12vdc-120v-inverter-charger-pure-sine-wave-output-hardwired~APS1012SW/
4 hour runtime...
Ball park 320AH 12 volt battery 50% discharge...
So 4 80AH batteries would do it...
Now that is a constant full 3.1 amp pull...
The stoker may not pull that 100% of the time so run time may be longer...
Play with run times and AC to DC conversions...
https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/calculator-sizing-a-battery-to-a-load.html
https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/ac-to-dc-amperage-conversion-run-through-an-inverter.html

 
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WNY
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Post by WNY » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 8:09 am

without exact specs, but I see they have been provided. You can't calculate it accurately, but looking at CapeCoaler recommendations, I was figuring he needed about 100aHr battery or more, depending on how long you want to run. also have to take the inverter power into consideration, usually they dont' draw much, but still needs to be added into the run time from the batteries.

 
guysnydr
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Post by guysnydr » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 8:33 am

Great info. Thank you.
Anybody know the approximate amp hours of a group 27 deep cycle marine battery?

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 8:36 am

CC calcs, 4 x 80aHr = 320aHr@12volts Thats 4 batteries @ 80aHr each in parallel. And you only get 50% discharge or shorten severly the life of the batteries.

 
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Post by McGiever » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 8:52 am

guysnydr wrote:Great info. Thank you.
Anybody know the approximate amp hours of a group 27 deep cycle marine battery?
160

This is your better choice, have them (RV/your work) order from their bat. supplier to get you 6 volt golf cart batteries, because group 27 will cost more compairing over the life of the batteries. The cycle life of group 27 = 200, while cycle life of GC-2 = 700...lasts 3.5 times longer life. ;)
You'd be setup for solar and even powering other loads outside of your seasonal heating backup needs, should you ever see it an option someday.

 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 9:56 am

Will that UPS charge that load of batteries?

I have some older UPS here and thought that would be my solution, too. Haven't gotten around to it yet, but I'm ready to put a postit note on one to save ;)

 
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Post by lsayre » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 11:13 am

CapeCoaler wrote:Super stoker spec is 3.1.amps @115 volts...
Call it 356 watts...
1000 watt sine-wave inverter...
https://www.tripplite.com/1000w-powerverter-aps-12vdc-120v-inverter-charger-pure-sine-wave-output-hardwired~APS1012SW/
4 hour runtime...
Ball park 320AH 12 volt battery 50% discharge...
So 4 80AH batteries would do it...
Now that is a constant full 3.1 amp pull...
The stoker may not pull that 100% of the time so run time may be longer...
Play with run times and AC to DC conversions...
https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/calculator-sizing-a-battery-to-a-load.html
https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/ac-to-dc-amperage-conversion-run-through-an-inverter.html
Pukert will kill the real world efficiency for sure. You will not get linear amps/watts as expected from your batteries due to "Peukert's Law". You will get either more or less than imagined unless Peukert's Law is followed and obeyed. And less is the far more likely outcome.

First you must compute your batteries (or battery banks) specific "Peukert Constant", and then once you know this you can use a Peukert calculator to determine how long the batteries will last for a given load.

Beware, I've found that many online Peukert calculators are programmed incorrectly.

The bottom line is that the more load you place upon the batteries the less "rated" amp hours they actually have (and visa-versa). The rated amp hours of a battery are for one specific set of circumstances only, and your needs will not likely match the battery(s) advertised amp/capacity rating.


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