Coal Vac- How to Lay Pipe in the Bin?

CoalisCoolxWarm wrote:Just when I thought we might be done heating for the season- NOT! LOL.

Not sure how to place the pickup pipe in the bottom of my bin for our coal vac system?

(it is better to position the suction pipe in the center hanging from the top with an elbow to allow the pipe to reach the bottom of the bin from the vertical leaving an inch to allow the coal to fall creating an inverted cone of coal that would fall downward to the suction pipe inlet)

Our bin is empty, need to order coal this week, but want to have the coal vac pickup pipe installed in the bottom of the bin before refilling. Won't be emptied again until next season, so this is it.

Here is the bin.

IMAG3324_1.jpg

And with coal from earlier in the season.

IMAG3328.jpg

I have gray Sch-40 electrical style conduit, seen here in early tests

CoalVacPrototype.jpg

CoalVacTestSupply.jpg

Here are some questions I have.

1. Do I use the same, or larger diameter pipe for the pickup?
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As our esteemed member Sting would say "Depends" on how well the coal flows. Dry (not oiled coal) will have much less resistance to mass flow with the negative pressure gradient created by your shop vac.
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2. Drill any holes in it, or cut out a notch for coal to enter (other than the air entry little tube/breather)?

( slap your patties!!!!!!!!!!!! No holes other than the suction point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No notch in the end either as your defeating the benefit by increasing the open area of the suction point and reducing the available pressure gradient!!!

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3. Lay it flat, or sloped on the bottom?

None of the three, hang or support the pipe with a 2 by 4 with enough room to attach unions to increase the length to the end of the bin. Ideally you will want to start at one end and then move the down pipe as needed adding unions and pipe lengths(as long as the connections are tight and you check them with smoke or soapy water you will be fine.

You want glued piping to seal the intake pipe to the point in the bin where you want to connect the suction down line at the edge of the bin.

You want to be able to reach the pile from all points by using pipe unions and adding length to the vertical suction line if needed.
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4. Any problem sucking coal straight up a pipe about 3-4', then sloping upwards? I have the 6.5hp, high C.F.M. Shop Vac.

No, just make sure the suction tube can reach the bottom and use a hoe to pull the coal to it when needed

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5. If only sucking coal up the end of the pipe, do I just end it in the middle of the bin floor? How high should it be kept off the floor? Ideas for supports?

(reread my suggestion for pipe placement and securing it)

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If it doesn't like straight vertical (90* from floor, up the side wall, and out of the bin), I could run about 45* slope from center of the bin to the LEFT side front corner, 90* turn towards back of bin and still elevating, then 90* towards RIGHT side of bin, about 30* slope, thought the side of the wooden part of the bin, 90* and about 20*-30* slope through the basement wall for about 12-15', then 90* turn down towards the bucket with an ending 45* into the top of the bucket.

(reread my suggestion)

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Estimating about 20' or so of piping doing it that way.

depends on how fussy you are about breaking and making connections with unions and how many unions you use as long as the connections are tight and cannot leak letting outside air in through the unions.

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What do you guys think? Anyone doing something similar?

sewer catch basin cleaners use the same concept and have been doing it this way for more than half a century
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Blindly connecting and testing is difficult, as it involves cutting holes in the sides of the bin and the basement wall/old coal chute door.

( you are not blindly cutting and connecting pipe by hanging the short lengths- 2 or 3 foot long with glued unions from a 2 b y 4 on top of the bin leaving a gap of 1 inch above the floor.

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I was wondering if there is any benefit to laying a piece of pipe in the bottom of the bin, with about 6" notches
in it to assist in coal pickup? Want to avoid clogging and a bunch of coal that won't get sucked up.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Insert scream here).

Zero benefit because you are eliminating any beneficial use of the law of gasses to your advantage by cutting notches in the tubing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

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Please read up on the six laws of gasses before you go any further.

Purchase four unions, cut horizontal pipe to length and dry fit them with the elbow and down pipe and you will see how the pressure gradient created by the shop vac will work to your benefit. Using smaller pipe to the shop vac inlet will increase the pressure gradient as long as the filter is not clogged with dust.

Smaller pipe will be easier to clean and connect as you empty the bin too.

If you have a dust deputy before the Shop Vac inlet and on the hopper opening all the better.

Spend a little time reading and you can lazily pull coal from your bin the RIGHT WAY.

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Thanks!

McGiever wrote:Dwyer Mark II will instantly give up every bit of it's red fluid to any shop vac experiments.

McGiever wrote:Dwyer Mark II will instantly give up every bit of it's red fluid to any shop vac experiments.

McGiever wrote:Is it impracticable to use a moveable pipe wand on a flexible hose instead of burying a pipe under tons of coal?

CoalisCoolxWarm wrote:

McGiever wrote:Is it impracticable to use a moveable pipe wand on a flexible hose instead of burying a pipe under tons of coal?

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NO, I was just trying to save him some scratch rather than buying 20 foot length of 2 inch wire reinforced suction hose for a trash pump.

Is that question for me?

If so, I'm thinking about sticking a slanted pipe down in the coal, near the center, keeping it about 4"-6" off the bottom, and letting it suck the coal from there. Not sure if that will work? (I was originally going to bury the pipe on the bottom, but I was thinking too much like an auger instead of vacuum)

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It will work for a very short while because as the coal is pulled in it will create cone of depression and eventually any mechanical advantage of "Mass flow Of Material" will cease to exist BECAUSE all you will sucking is air.
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Maybe the coal will be too compacted to allow it to be sucked into the pipe?

It is referred to is settling to the angle of repose NEVER Compaction because it is not packed down with a vibratory roller or dozer track.

Coal like aggregates has an "Angle Of Repose" and that is what you are dealing with in bins and open stockpiles and it is your friend when the draw point hopper below the grade still has coal on top of it but when there is no coal to be had the below grade hopper is empty the coal that is easily reclaimed is gone and you have to move it to the draw point AKA suction hose.

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If it will work, I can add a Wye to the pipe above the coal where it enters the upper part of the bin so I can choose to use the pipe or a moveable wand (like a shop vac wand attaches to its hose) to reach corners, etc.

The goal is to be able to operate it exclusively from INSIDE the basement, without the need to constantly reposition the pickup tube in the bin.

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Not going to happen
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If there is a practical limit to how deep I can stick the pickup pipe into the coal before it compacts too much, locking the coal and preventing it from being sucked up....then I'll stick it down in that 14" or whatever that amount is and reposition every 2 or 3 weeks or whatever the numbers end up being.

Guess the big question is: Is there a height limit in the coal pile of buck where the compacting prevents the coal from being sucked from the bottom of that pile?

I know there MUST be a height limit, but it could be 30 FEET for all I know, LOL.