Fresh Air Intake /Outside Air Intake for Keystoker KA6?
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
Handfired stoves = "Heck yes" for outside fresh air intake. What about my Keystoker KA6?
I have the main combustion fan, the "I'm always running and your fire's always burning" fan, and then a pretty open Baro much of the time.
I've not used a fresh air/outside air intake on anything before...well, on turbo diesels, but that doesn't count
My mano is .02-.03 steadily, per Keystoker's installation manual.
I'm burning buck.
Has anyone used a fresh air intake on a Keystoker KA6, or something with similar air usage?
Think it will be beneficial, or is the amount of air too small to really make a difference?
Seal the pipe to the intake, or just end it near the intake?
Anyone put a fresh air intake to the baro? Any advantage , or just let it use the room air?
Opinions, success stories, horror stories, etc all welcome
I have the main combustion fan, the "I'm always running and your fire's always burning" fan, and then a pretty open Baro much of the time.
I've not used a fresh air/outside air intake on anything before...well, on turbo diesels, but that doesn't count
My mano is .02-.03 steadily, per Keystoker's installation manual.
I'm burning buck.
Has anyone used a fresh air intake on a Keystoker KA6, or something with similar air usage?
Think it will be beneficial, or is the amount of air too small to really make a difference?
Seal the pipe to the intake, or just end it near the intake?
Anyone put a fresh air intake to the baro? Any advantage , or just let it use the room air?
Opinions, success stories, horror stories, etc all welcome
- windyhill4.2
- Member
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Fri. Nov. 22, 2013 2:17 pm
- Location: Jonestown,Pa.17038
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
Must be why FF always calls stokers "girly" stovesRob R. wrote:Coal stokers like warm & dry air, not cold and damp. I would make sure there is enough fresh air available to the boiler room and call it good.
- Pauliewog
- Member
- Posts: 1824
- Joined: Mon. Dec. 02, 2013 12:15 am
- Location: Pittston, Pennsylvania
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
- Baseburners & Antiques: Fame Rosemont #20, Home Stove Works #25, Glenwood #6, Happy Thought Oak, Merry Bride #214, Sunnyside, Worlds Argand #114, New Golden Sun , & About 30 others.
- Coal Size/Type: Stove, Chesnut, Pea, Rice / Anthracite
windyhill4.2 wrote:Must be why FF always calls stokers "girly" stovesRob R. wrote:Coal stokers like warm & dry air, not cold and damp. I would make sure there is enough fresh air available to the boiler room and call it good.
-
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 11416
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
- Location: Kent CT
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
- Coal Size/Type: nut and pea
Fresh air intake should eliminate any concern for house effect on draft.
and the other side of the discussion is....Lightning wrote:Cold air infiltration is gonna happen. Why contribute to it?
Why not try to control it a bit? And seal up those other leaks?
In addition to lessening the 'draftiness' in my basement after putting in the outside air pipe, I think it helps with the draft through the fire during non combustion fan times. My flat bed stoker will keep a fire for an hour plus with no combustion fan which is much longer than the 15 minutes or so prior to the pipe being installed. If we lose power it isn't a race to get the generator fired up and connected. This is not be a big deal for the pot stokers as they already go for hours but it may help someone that has an installation which has marginal draft on warmer days.
It's not a measured quantity with the 'draftiness' thing, but I can say the far end of the basement feels much warmer without the draft coming in from the crawlspace anymore.
- Rob R.
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 17980
- Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
Some people see benefits from outside air, but a lot depends on other variables like the house design and chinney draft. If you have a poor chimney and a tight house, outside air might help.
My opinion is that damp air contributes to corrosion and buildup in the blower housing, which increases maintenance without a worthwhile performance improvement. I experimented with a 6" air duct bringing fresh air to the general area of my stoker, and other than making a cold spot and seemingly increasing dust on the fan, I did not see any changes.
Your experience might be different, try it and let us know how it goes.
My opinion is that damp air contributes to corrosion and buildup in the blower housing, which increases maintenance without a worthwhile performance improvement. I experimented with a 6" air duct bringing fresh air to the general area of my stoker, and other than making a cold spot and seemingly increasing dust on the fan, I did not see any changes.
Your experience might be different, try it and let us know how it goes.
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
Thanks for all the replies!
I had many of the same questions as you guys are bringing up.
I hadn't thought about damp air going through the blower. Is it really that sensitive?
This chimney is in the middle of the house and drafts well. I had to add weight to the baro to cut it back, as measured with my manometer.
The possibility of establishing a natural draft during power outages is VERY interesting! I don't have a solution for this yet, except 'wait and relight when the power comes back on'
But I also worry that the warm inside air might start its own competing draft BACKWARDS, out the pipe? I was thinking about plumbing it next to my upcoming Coalvac pipe, but that would mean it goes from almost the floor, to almost the ceiling, horizontal about 10", then outside.
Would cool air naturally sink and flow to the blower, or would the pipe warm in the basement and draft upwards and outside?
The combustion fans...not sure if they would suck air well or how far??? Sure don't want them sucking against a natural draft.
And sure don't want a reverse draft at the BACK of the firebed, competing with the chimney
Not sure how realistic that concern is, though.
What are you guys seeing, who are using fresh air intakes?
If you turn off your blowers, or your fire is out when it is cold, can you feel warm air coming outside from the pipe?
I had many of the same questions as you guys are bringing up.
I hadn't thought about damp air going through the blower. Is it really that sensitive?
This chimney is in the middle of the house and drafts well. I had to add weight to the baro to cut it back, as measured with my manometer.
The possibility of establishing a natural draft during power outages is VERY interesting! I don't have a solution for this yet, except 'wait and relight when the power comes back on'
But I also worry that the warm inside air might start its own competing draft BACKWARDS, out the pipe? I was thinking about plumbing it next to my upcoming Coalvac pipe, but that would mean it goes from almost the floor, to almost the ceiling, horizontal about 10", then outside.
Would cool air naturally sink and flow to the blower, or would the pipe warm in the basement and draft upwards and outside?
The combustion fans...not sure if they would suck air well or how far??? Sure don't want them sucking against a natural draft.
And sure don't want a reverse draft at the BACK of the firebed, competing with the chimney
Not sure how realistic that concern is, though.
What are you guys seeing, who are using fresh air intakes?
If you turn off your blowers, or your fire is out when it is cold, can you feel warm air coming outside from the pipe?
There are a couple prior threads about this topic with some good ideas and debate...here is one.....
What Do U Think Abou O/S Combustion Air? Long Post, Sorry
What Do U Think Abou O/S Combustion Air? Long Post, Sorry
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
Thanks. Tried a few different terms to search, but didn't find a tonne of stuff.titleist1 wrote:There are a couple prior threads about this topic with some good ideas and debate...here is one.....
What Do U Think Abou O/S Combustion Air? Long Post, Sorry
- coalkirk
- Member
- Posts: 5185
- Joined: Wed. May. 17, 2006 8:12 pm
- Location: Forest Hill MD
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520 retired
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507 on standby
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite/rice coal
This is right on! Your house hates a vacuum. If you are exhausting air out of the house such as with a chimney, cold air is coming in and there is no two ways about it. Why not manage where it comes in? I've got a 4" PVC pipe through the band joist of my coal bin to allow air into the boiler room. If I blocked it off, the boiler is still going to suck air from elsewhere but it will be dragging it through the house. My boiler room stays about 80 degrees.titleist1 wrote:and the other side of the discussion is....Lightning wrote:Cold air infiltration is gonna happen. Why contribute to it?
Why not try to control it a bit? And seal up those other leaks?
In addition to lessening the 'draftiness' in my basement after putting in the outside air pipe, I think it helps with the draft through the fire during non combustion fan times. My flat bed stoker will keep a fire for an hour plus with no combustion fan which is much longer than the 15 minutes or so prior to the pipe being installed. If we lose power it isn't a race to get the generator fired up and connected. This is not be a big deal for the pot stokers as they already go for hours but it may help someone that has an installation which has marginal draft on warmer days.
It's not a measured quantity with the 'draftiness' thing, but I can say the far end of the basement feels much warmer without the draft coming in from the crawlspace anymore.
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
Noticing a draft in the pipe when the combustion cycle isn't running?
How close/what type of termination at the boiler side? Maybe use a duct boot? Any pics?
How close/what type of termination at the boiler side? Maybe use a duct boot? Any pics?
- coalkirk
- Member
- Posts: 5185
- Joined: Wed. May. 17, 2006 8:12 pm
- Location: Forest Hill MD
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520 retired
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507 on standby
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite/rice coal
My pipe isn't connected to the boiler intake. It just supplies make up air to the boiler room. There is always some air coming in through the pipe as there is always air going out through the chimney. But I believe there is a more noticeable inflow when the boiler is firing.