Something to Ponder for the 'Whole House' Stoker Gang

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Thu. Jul. 10, 2014 6:50 pm

Sting wrote:STING = chopped liver :oops: :mad:
Sorry Sting, but until now somehow I didn't know that you disagreed. ;)

Make that 3 who agree, and 1 who disagrees. :) :P


waldo lemieux
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Post Thu. Jul. 10, 2014 7:02 pm

Ive never had a inclination to keep such close track of consumption or hdd. Do hdd 's take into account wind speed ? If not I feel like its a almost irrelevant # as the wind speed and direction are the more relevant factors here on beam hill. Super cold quiet night = minimal ash> windy and 25 = full ash pan . Please note these are anecdotal results. no logs or measurements.

waldo

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nortcan
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Post Thu. Jul. 10, 2014 7:52 pm

No university for me, so the math is: 24 Pounds for 24 Hrs, for the 2,100 Sq ft house is the most I burned on the coldest Canadian Winter days.
Plus the pleasure to get antique toys and 24/24 same nice steady heat 8-)
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samhill
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Location: Linesville, Pa.

Post Thu. Jul. 10, 2014 8:26 pm

Somehow this thread takes all the comfort out of knowing my house will be warm & comfy when it's cold, snowing & a blowing. Little else matters, if I have to weigh coal before, after or during & calculate everything I may as well just use the propain & forgo the ease warmth & comfort of coal. I know it's summer but some need a hobby or more yard work ya just plain have way too much time on your hands. 8-)

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windyhill4.2
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Post Thu. Jul. 10, 2014 8:59 pm

I found something that I am in total agreement with samhill... :shock: :)

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Thu. Jul. 10, 2014 9:36 pm

samhill wrote:Somehow this thread takes all the comfort out of knowing my house will be warm & comfy when it's cold, snowing & a blowing. Little else matters, if I have to weigh coal before, after or during & calculate everything I may as well just use the propain & forgo the ease warmth & comfort of coal. I know it's summer but some need a hobby or more yard work ya just plain have way too much time on your hands. 8-)
Then you didn't pay attention at all. This thread was made specifically for the benefit of those who do not weigh their coal any more often than once a heating season. Complements of someone who does. It grants them what may be the worlds simplest heat loss calculation method ever devised. Something that was formerly well beyond the means of the average Joe to accomplish on his own with any level of reliability, repeatability, confidence, and/or relevant meaning.

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/envy-hatred_of_ ... _good.html

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lsayre
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Location: N/E Ohio, between Medina and Wadsworth

Post Thu. Jul. 10, 2014 10:13 pm

PS: The proof for this comes in my post where I compare a heat loss calculation for my own home which is definitively pinned down for coal (due to dilligent daily measurement) against a heat loss calculation for electricity which begins with only a single annual usage figure for KWH's and then computes from this single data point a theoretical home heat loss figure that comes within 2% of the initial heat loss figure that is rock solid.

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blrman07
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Location: Girardville Pa.

Post Fri. Jul. 11, 2014 7:21 am

Ok I am trying to understand why everyone went through this little mathathon exercise. Was this to figure out how much you might use on the coldest day of the year? If so I have to ask the question....WHY??

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.


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Rob R.
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Post Fri. Jul. 11, 2014 7:59 am

samhill wrote:Somehow this thread takes all the comfort out of knowing my house will be warm & comfy when it's cold, snowing & a blowing. Little else matters, if I have to weigh coal before, after or during & calculate everything I may as well just use the propain & forgo the ease warmth & comfort of coal. I know it's summer but some need a hobby or more yard work ya just plain have way too much time on your hands. 8-)
they why are you participating in the discussion?

waldo lemieux
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Post Fri. Jul. 11, 2014 8:03 am

Well I appreciate your zeal Larry , even though I would never be organized enough to do such measurements myself. :) plus there's not much other coal news to report this time of year. Lighten up a little Sam..... sheeze :o

samhill
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Location: Linesville, Pa.

Post Fri. Jul. 11, 2014 8:09 am

Actually Waldo I was being a little light just saying that all this worry work takes the fun & enjoyment out of heating with coal. I tend to think that if someone else had posted just about the same thing nothing more would have been said. :(
Soo seeing how some can't stand to hear anything perhaps a little detrimental but meant to be light hearted I'll simply take advice & not participate any farther. :roll:

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Sting
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Post Fri. Jul. 11, 2014 8:37 am

Unfortunately, there’s not simple answer that’s absolutely true for all situations. Not only does it depend, but it’s somewhat subjective too. Each load is unique, so there are many exceptions when trying to generalize.

But it is fun to bench race this stuff when nobody is asking how to make a wet system work better.

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Rob R.
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Post Fri. Jul. 11, 2014 8:49 am

Now Sam, I wasn't saying you had to "butt out"...but I was wondering why you were involved in the discussion if Larry's math was giving you a headache and taking the fun out of the black rocks.

I only kept a daily log for my first full season with the coal boiler. I am "one of those guys" that makes spreadsheets for all kinds of stuff, and I was curious how my investment was paying off compared to the previous year of fuel oil heating. It wasn't very hard to do, I have an hour meter on the stoker, and the boiler is close to my beer fridge. Walk down to the basement, get a cold beer, write the hour meter reading in the notebook...enjoy the beer and cheap heat. At the end of the season I simply made a graph of the numbers.

Keep in mind that I usually don't participate in the political discussions, so that gives me some extra time right there. :D

samhill
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Location: Linesville, Pa.

Post Fri. Jul. 11, 2014 9:17 am

As I said Rob, my first statement was meant to be light hearted but I guess that wasn't plain enough. It's easy for me to know that my investment has paid for itself rather quickly as my main source of heat was propain before I went to coal. Now if I had a setup similar to you I might just make a spread sheet, nah I have to be honest I'd just sit there, enjoy the heat & the cold beer. Being less young & even being on a limited income I find that many things in life just don't matter all that much while others matter all the more so I tend to be thankful for what I have & enjoy the time left. :D

Pacowy
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Post Fri. Jul. 11, 2014 10:32 am

lsayre wrote:After the HVAC guys calculate a homes heat loss, how much padding factor do they (or better, should they) apply above that level in order to size a furnace or boiler?
The "HVAC guys" I would listen to are the ones who use the heat loss computations to check/ensure the adequacy of the installed radiation, and then size the boiler so that it is adequate to power that radiation. Failure to do so opens the door to a world of performance problems that are most evident in steam systems, but - as shown in various forum threads last winter - also can be troubling in hydronic systems.

The heat delivered by the installed radiation needs to be scaled up by a "pick-up" factor to account for distribution line losses when setting the output requirement for the appliance. Pick-up factors are somewhat arbitrary, and vary quite a bit. In the olden days, numbers in the 1.3-1.4 range were often used. Nowadays, the "net" (of pick-up) boiler ratings of some manufacturers differ from their gross output ratings by less than 1.2.

Mike


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