Hard-On for the New Harman Co.?

A Coal stoker furnace or stove controls most operations including automatically feeding the coal. They are quite similar to any conventional oil and gas units and easily operated for extended periods of time. They commonly use rice coal but may use larger sizes like buckwheat. They can be used as primary heat, supplementary heat or have a dual set up with your existing oil/gas furnace.
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dcrane
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Post Wed. Oct. 30, 2013 7:46 pm

Carbon12 wrote:NO experience with Harman products, HOWEVER,.....when I first started looking into coal stoves, the closest coal stove dealer was a Harman Dealer. 15 minutes away. Staff was nice enough and seemed knowledgable, at the time. Now that I know a thing or thing or two about coal burning, I realize they weren't telling the whole truth about things. I had a perfectly good, terra cotta lined fireplace flu that was 10 years old and maybe had seen 2 dozen fires in that time. Without even LOOKING at my chimney, he said I HAD to buy a liner and have it installed or they wouldn't sell me a stove! Bull excrement! Left a really bad taste in my mouth. I ended up with a Hitzer from a small dealer nowhere near as close to me. Was very happy with the Hitzer.
its all about the smoke N mirrors my friend... the dealer makes next to NOTHING on a Harman product!!! they make their money by servicing you with anything else they can sell!!! .... someday people will "see the light" about this company :doh:


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Flyer5
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Post Wed. Oct. 30, 2013 7:59 pm

dcrane wrote:
Carbon12 wrote:NO experience with Harman products, HOWEVER,.....when I first started looking into coal stoves, the closest coal stove dealer was a Harman Dealer. 15 minutes away. Staff was nice enough and seemed knowledgable, at the time. Now that I know a thing or thing or two about coal burning, I realize they weren't telling the whole truth about things. I had a perfectly good, terra cotta lined fireplace flu that was 10 years old and maybe had seen 2 dozen fires in that time. Without even LOOKING at my chimney, he said I HAD to buy a liner and have it installed or they wouldn't sell me a stove! Bull excrement! Left a really bad taste in my mouth. I ended up with a Hitzer from a small dealer nowhere near as close to me. Was very happy with the Hitzer.
its all about the smoke N mirrors my friend... the dealer makes next to NOTHING on a Harman product!!! they make their money by servicing you with anything else they can sell!!! .... someday people will "see the light" about this company :doh:
Hey we are big time too. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-09-03/u-dot ... m-55-dot-4 :D
http://www.leisurelinestove.com


You know when people say it was "better back in my day"?

They were right.

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Wiz
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Post Wed. Oct. 30, 2013 8:02 pm

(Im not putting my money outside the USA and if you buy a Harman thats EXACTLY were YOUR money is going, which WILL inevitably help to further the downfall here... for all you guys gun N glory and Gov. opinions im surprised any of you would knowingly send the few dollars we have left outside the country to improve others country's and hurt our own!.... I don't care how freaking good that china crap may or may not be.... im buying a freeking Liesure Line where I know the welder is an American like me trying to feed his family and the Company does everything they can to keep every nickle in this country!
I thought long and hard about replying so don't take it as a bashing... You speak of not giving your money to china and keeping $$$$ here. What brand of vehicle, computer,electronics,tools,power tools,clothing, cell phone. do you own??? The list goes on and on. You want to help american families then shop here http://www.americansworking.com/
Especially to a guy who just bought one brand new and shouldn't have to listen to that crap. How would you like to have spent big money on a stove and be told it's a POS. He should of had more toned down responses about what to do etc. instead of bashing.


X2 I totally agree with you... A member comes here to explain his current issue and gets 90% bashing of his purchase.
Randy
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coalkirk
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: anthracite/rice coal
Location: Forest Hill MD

Post Wed. Oct. 30, 2013 8:24 pm

To my knowledge Dane Harman is no longer at Harman. I could be wrong. I was once before. They made a high quality product. Their business model was to rely on their dealer network. Most of the dealers, at least in my area, didn't know which end of a hopper the coal goes in. That's how they got their bad reputation for customer service. As I've said many times before on this forum, fortunatley you didn't need much customer service with their products cause they were so well built and simple.

Then comes the take over. The new folks are heavily slanted to pellets and gas. They are probably libs who think coal is killing the planet. They just dumped a bunch of coal burning stoves, furnaces and boilers. I'm sure it was a bean counter thing too.

I'm very happy with my Harman. But like others have said, I would not buy another one. That's not a good business model for long term survivial. We are very fortunate as the coal forum community to have a couple of smart, enterprising members who bought Leisure Line Stove company a few years ago and are very tuned into to customer service. If you have a problem with any of their products you get to talk to owner and get it resolved. That's pretty unusual in todays world.

I probably shouldn't say this cause I will probably be skewered for it> But the recent thread about the super mag problem where the wiring got caught in the stoker, that sounded like it was just as much the users fault as Harmans. Probably just an inexperienced guy who didn't really understand how the thing worked. Maybe I'm wrong. I was once before. :)
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill

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Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

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Cap
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator
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Other Heating: Heat Pumps
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Post Wed. Oct. 30, 2013 10:43 pm

coalkirk wrote: I probably shouldn't say this cause I will probably be skewered for it> But the recent thread about the super mag problem where the wiring got caught in the stoker, that sounded like it was just as much the users fault as Harmans. Probably just an inexperienced guy who didn't really understand how the thing worked. Maybe I'm wrong. I was once before. :)
Yes you are wrong. That's 2x now! :discuss: I think it was lack of detail upon install. Even if the wires weren't properly secured by the factory, shouldn't the install guy have recognized it?

Side note: I can understand the need for factory technical service with complicated or new technology BUT are coal stoves rocket science? The need by the consumer to be able to have contact with a plant or design engineer isn't part of the sales agreement. Is it? I have worked in a world of field technical service my entire working career. Sometimes you just have to use logic, skill & mechanical ability to solve problems on your own. Can't always have the manf there to hold your hand. Do garage mechanics call car manufacturers every day? If the product is faulty under warranty, go thru channels.
Cap
Lehigh Twp.
Northampton Co., PA

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SMITTY
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - (custom built by Jim Dorsey, Taunton MA - RIP 4/18/13)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (SOLD!)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
Location: West-Central Mass

Post Wed. Oct. 30, 2013 11:28 pm

Harman is the GM of the stove world ... :lol: Overpriced, for sure.

I can't say "unreliable", because I've got a hand-fired -- you have to work pretty hard at screwing that up! :lol:
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Matthaus
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Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite
Location: Wilkes Barre, PA

Post Wed. Oct. 30, 2013 11:53 pm

Any company that produces units to burn Anthracite Coal are OK in my book. Under Danes creative abilities and sheer talent Harman had production rates and a variety of products that made them the standard to be looked up to. It is true that HHT took Harman a different direction than Dane was going, but regardless they are in business and the dealers who have been loyal depend on them to produce a decent product so that they can put food on the table. And yes Dane is still there, of course he doesn't call the shots, but he built one heck of a company and deserves all the respect in the world for it, and but for a few months of not being able to make ends meet the company would still be his.
One other thing that seems to be forgotten, opinions are the right of each individual, our country was built on individual thought and a pioneer "can do" attitude. So let it fly, make your opinion known! Just don't forget to help your fellow man when help is needed. ;)
Matthaus
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http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/

stoveman
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Efm,keystoker,leisure line
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman,keystoker,leisure line ,reading,hitzer
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Post Thu. Oct. 31, 2013 3:31 am

First of all Harman celebrates it 35 the year in buisness next year and they are still made in the original location that they have been made for years which is in pa built plant and a lot of the same employes are still there and Dane is still involved with daily decisions !


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dcrane
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Post Thu. Oct. 31, 2013 5:00 am

stoveman wrote:First of all Harman celebrates it 35 the year in buisness next year and they are still made in the original location that they have been made for years which is in pa built plant and a lot of the same employes are still there and Dane is still involved with daily decisions !
OK... here is the smoke N mirrors propaganda by Harman Stoves (aka hearth and home tech.)... (aka HNI Corp.)... they keep Dane sitting in the corner wearing his slippers and waving his flag and as part of the buy out agreement and for Dane to keep collecting his well deserved retirement (I have no issue with Dane...a great man indeed and if we had more Americans like him we would all be better off). obviously Dane cannot compete or assist in a competing company so hes not going anywhere!!!.... he will continue to wear his slippers and simply wave a flag like he is told. Im sure he would love nothing more than to run through the doors of LL with his genius & innovation (only thing Harman is innovating is the for mentioned "Glitter" these days (oppps... I forgot, they have innovated ways to cheap down the stoves these days at the same time as drastically increasing the prices... Gotta give em' prop's for fooling the whole country with "smoke N mirrors"!)

I agree that we made a lot of mistakes many times over the years but this does mean USA should keep making them (two wrongs don't make it right).... If you support Asia and you wish our money to continue its forceful flow into making Asian countries the world power and the place where dreams are built than by all means buy a Harman Stove... sometimes I think its a big conspiracy to take over our lands, our buildings, our gas stations, our liquor stores, our money...in time our whole country! start a thread about Vermont Castings and I'll really start unleashing! :mad:

"To achieve social best practices within our global supply chain, we use our HNI Asia affiliate, our Asian-based international procurement organization, and Det Norske Veritas, a third party CSR audit service provider, to proactively conduct social compliance audits and drive continuous social improvements with suppliers. Our HNI Asia affiliate has a team of CSR Auditors located in China (where our significant international suppliers are located) who monitor working conditions in the factories of our suppliers, and work with management to help ensure they abide by our Supplier Code.

The points outlined below in bold highlight each of the five pillars of the California Transparency in Supply Chains Act, followed by an explanation of what we are doing to address each pillar."

Rigar
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Location: central new york (syracuse area)

Post Thu. Oct. 31, 2013 6:27 am

Matthaus wrote:Any company that produces units to burn Anthracite Coal are OK in my book. Under Danes creative abilities and sheer talent Harman had production rates and a variety of products that made them the standard to be looked up to. It is true that HHT took Harman a different direction than Dane was going, but regardless they are in business and the dealers who have been loyal depend on them to produce a decent product so that they can put food on the table. And yes Dane is still there, of course he doesn't call the shots, but he built one heck of a company and deserves all the respect in the world for it, and but for a few months of not being able to make ends meet the company would still be his.
One other thing that seems to be forgotten, opinions are the right of each individual, our country was built on individual thought and a pioneer "can do" attitude. So let it fly, make your opinion known! Just don't forget to help your fellow man when help is needed. ;)
...

....lol. help your fellow man?...i sent you a PM 6 weeks ago Matt (looking for some 'help')-no response yet.
Practice what ya preach brother! :lol:

DISCLAIMER: sometimes I let my sarcasm get the best of me....buts its all in good fun!
....'Rigar

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captcaper
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Post Thu. Oct. 31, 2013 6:46 am

SMITTY wrote:Harman is the GM of the stove world ... :lol: Overpriced, for sure.

I can't say "unreliable", because I've got a hand-fired -- you have to work pretty hard at screwing that up! :lol:
GM??? I say Haman is the Ford of the world...right on and under priced compared to the others. :)

I owned many hand fired stoves including the beloved Chubby. 2 of them. The Haman MarkIII is way way above them all. I had shaker issues were the rods bend. The door hinge wore fast,the handles fell off. and the pot cracked. I burnt the MarkIII for 7 years much harder then the Chubbys ever saw. And the Mark III was easier to use and did a better job.
Current Stove Harman Super Magnum
Owned before
Harman Mark III Wood Parlor stove Scandia Wood Stove 2 Chubby Coal Stoves Small Pot Belly Cast Iron

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SuperBeetle
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark II
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Nut, & Stove Anthracite
Location: Gettysburg, PA

Post Thu. Oct. 31, 2013 7:24 am

I can't complain about my Mark II. I've been using it for 20 years and only replaced to door gaskets. I did buy a new blower but the old one still runs. I bought my stove used for $700.00. It a has the brass trim and triple glass. It looks like the Mark II has been discontinued like a lot of the other stoves that were produced by Harman. Too bad they did that.
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katman
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magnum
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Post Thu. Oct. 31, 2013 8:04 am

Gee, I guess I am going to have to stop eating pork chops and bacon now that Smithfield sold out to the Chinese! Don't matter that the american farmers are growing the grain to feed the pigs that are still raised on farms here in the USA. That there is chinese pork in the local supermarket and if I buy it my dollars are going overseas. And it is an inferior product because now the chinese own (or are buying if the deal hasn't closed yet) Smithfield.

We are so very self righteous. But the fact of the matter is we american consumers sent our manufacturers abroad by demanding cheap prices for goods on the shelves while also expecting good wages for our workers here. Squeeze a baloon--the air doesn't go out it just moves around. You want cheap prices, the manufacturers have little choice if they want profits to survive and going abroad is the most economical way to make goods cheaper.

Unfortunately, there aren't too many of us willing to pay a premium price for a made in USA product when we can buy a comparable, foreign-made product for significantly less. Maybe the higher priced product is better, but in most cases it is the price that drives the sale. I buy made in USA whenever I can and I am willing to pay more unless the domestic product is clearly inferior. But, according to the statistics, I have more expendable household income than most, so I can buy made in USA when many households simple can't afford to. Also, let's not forget that today the economy is global. Parts come from around the world, so made in USA often means something is only assembled here. And publicly traded "American" companies have stockholders everywhere.

I have an old Harman magnum and a Harman pellet boiler. I've sent emails to the factory, and they have responded when I needed asssitance but wasn't getting much help from my local dealer. If the products were junk I would buy something better. If Harman's new products are junk the maket will sort that out, but bashing someone who bought a product just because we don't like the fact that the manufacturer has changed ownership or expects retail dealers to support their customers is ridiculous.

Dane Harman was a visionary and pioneer who unfortunately misjudged the market, expanding and building inventory while failing to see adverse economic headwinds and consumers who were becoming much more price conscious at a time when cheaper alternatives were becoming more widely available. He stretched too far and had to get bailed out. That's business. Fortunately, he got a deal and his employees still have jobs. Maybe someday he will be able to jump back into the game. I hope so. But I am so tired or hearing the Harman bashers. I wish Matt the best at LL. I think he knows the weakest link for a manufacturer who is determined to make a good product is the retail network. I'm amazed that my local dealer still puts a considerable markup on his Harman products (calling the added 10-30 % special order or service charges), knowing potential customers can go 30 miles down the road and buy the same item for significantly less. But, it's a strategy that works for him because he knows that most of his customers are time constrained. He can switch them into a different brand stove, and probably earn the same or better margin that he would get if he sold the Harman at full retail instead of marked up. He's going to make his money on the install anyways. He's selling Harman's just because the name recongnition brings buyers into his shop. Every time I need something I still try to do business with him cause he is local. Just last weekend he gave me a price for something, and was nearly $500 more than another Harman dealer down the road. So, I voted with my feet and wallet. He understands.

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freetown fred
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Post Thu. Oct. 31, 2013 8:24 am

Ya know, I keep reading all this Harman nonsense & nowhere have I seen anyone bashing the stoves themselves--CUSTOMER SERVICE is what has discouraged a lot of people from the brand, not the brand itself. If I'm reading a dozen negatives on something (HARMANS customer service through the dealers) & 3 or 4 positives, I gotta think serious about that. Of course there has gotten to be so many geniuses on here as of late, it's hard to sort through all the BS :( If we lined up 20 coal burners, I'm sure we would hear positive & negative on whatever device came up. My personal thoughts are that if ya don't have positive feedback on individual dealers, customer service, again, I'm gonna take real serious note on that! To the few that respond with good customer service, dealer experiences, I commend those dealers:)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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KLook
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Post Thu. Oct. 31, 2013 8:29 am

Ditto Fred. I think that was alluded to some time back. But the few who support Harman, and one sounds like a dealer, got real irate. And no one is bashing the early Harman's before the change over.

Kevin


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