Condensation and Sulfur Smell Inside Hopper

A Coal stoker furnace or stove controls most operations including automatically feeding the coal. They are quite similar to any conventional oil and gas units and easily operated for extended periods of time. They commonly use rice coal but may use larger sizes like buckwheat. They can be used as primary heat, supplementary heat or have a dual set up with your existing oil/gas furnace.
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coaledsweat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 9:30 am

av8r wrote:Would it be possible for someone to burn enough anthracite coal in one season in a stoker to create enough flyash in the pipes to reduce the draft even a little? I would think you'd need a pretty significant accumulation of ash in a 6" pipe to reduce the small amount of draft required to run one of these stoves. Maybe I'm wrong.
Yes would be the answer. Some installs will have relativly no accumulation in a year and some may need to be cleaned 3 or 4 times a season. The only way to know is to get in there and clean it to see what is there. Once you know, you can determine how often yours needs to be cleaned. It doesn't take a lot of ash either, again, it depends on a lot of factors. Be safe and clean it, then you will know.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.


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av8r
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos
Location: Near Owego, NY

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 9:32 am

WNY wrote:Depends on the coal and your chimney, Yes, it might take a lot to build up in a 6" pipe, but using using the numbers.
Quick calc. (Area = Pi * Diam)

6" pipe = 6.0" x 3.14 = 18.8 Sq. In. Area

With Ash build-up of say 1/2" (now the pipe ID will be 5.5")
5.5" x 3.14 = 17.27 Sq. In. Area

That's about 10% loss in Area.

I just checked and vacuumed my pipe and had probably 1/2-3/4" thick in the horizontal run out of the stove and all around the ash pan, I have probably only burn maybe 1-1.5 ton so far....you would be surprized if you don't check it often. I was!!
It might be fun to do some fluid dynamics calculations on this to figure out how much is too much ash.
Yes would be the answer. Some installs will have relativly no accumulation in a year and some may need to be cleaned 3 or 4 times a season. The only way to know is to get in there and clean it to see what is there. Once you know, you can determine how often yours needs to be cleaned. It doesn't take a lot of ash either, again, it depends on a lot of factors. Be safe and clean it, then you will know.
I'm a born skeptic so I'll need some actual data that shows how much is too much before I'll just jump on an ambiguous statement like that. Nothing personal....just how I'm wired.
"Fools you are. To say you learn by your experience. I prefer to profit by others' mistakes and avoid the price of my own."

- Otto von Bismarck

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Richard S.
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite
Location: NEPA

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 9:59 am

av8r wrote: Would it be possible for someone to burn enough anthracite coal in one season in a stoker to create enough flyash in the pipes to reduce the draft even a little?


That's subjective, even the coal can affect it. Ours for example has a huge flue pipe and the design tends to keep most of the ash in the furnace. We only get about inch and half, maybe 2 inches each year. I'd imagine it could go many years without doing any maintenance but I haven't tested this theory out and have no intentions of trying it. ;)
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

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coaledsweat
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Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 10:01 am

av8r wrote:I'm a born skeptic so I'll need some actual data that shows how much is too much before I'll just jump on an ambiguous statement like that. Nothing personal....just how I'm wired.
Its not ambiguous, the data you seek would only apply to what was tested, not what someone else has. Again, there are to many factors separating each install to make a broadbrush statment to cover everything. Each installation has different characteristics and will need to be maintained according to them, not some theoretical data. Running a stove from someone else's data could be a death warrant.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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WNY
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon
Location: Cuba, NY
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Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 10:04 am

WOW, we all like to "ANAL"ize all of this stuff sometimes way too much....but, makes it fun and interesting to see what all of us come up with. :)

And like you said, what works for one person, may not for another, every situation is different....Read your manual, do your maintence and BE SAFE!!! :!:
- Dave
Hyfire I & Keystoker 90K heating an 1890 Victorian
- Amsoil Authorized T1 Certified Dealer

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av8r
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos
Location: Near Owego, NY

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 11:45 am

I guess what it boils down to is that it isn't the reduction in internal area that causes the issue as much as the effect the collection of ash has on the laminar flow characteristics of the air in the pipe. Depending on each install and it's inherent turbulence, the amount of ash that will affect the draft will be different.
"Fools you are. To say you learn by your experience. I prefer to profit by others' mistakes and avoid the price of my own."

- Otto von Bismarck

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CoalHeat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 12:24 pm

WNY wrote:WOW, we all like to "ANAL"ize all of this stuff sometimes way too much....but, makes it fun and interesting to see what all of us come up with. :)

And like you said, what works for one person, may not for another, every situation is different....Read your manual, do your maintence and BE SAFE!!! :!:
Right! Stop thinking about every "what if" and minute detail, get the hell off of the forum and go and vacuum out the pipes!!!!!!
That's why I like the baro where it is on my set-up, I can look in with a flashlight at anytime and see how much ash is built up in the pipe. The clean out for the chimney is easy to get to as well, I slide the clothes dryer out (I have it on wheels) and the clean out is right there.
One of the objectives I try to adhere to is to try to make things easier to do. But as the saying goes, "Do it my way, anyone can do it the right way".
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

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CoalHeat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 12:27 pm

av8r wrote:I guess what it boils down to is that it isn't the reduction in internal area that causes the issue as much as the effect the collection of ash has on the laminar flow characteristics of the air in the pipe. Depending on each install and it's inherent turbulence, the amount of ash that will affect the draft will be different.
Calculations in my low wattage brain say if a 6" pipe is half full of ash then you only have internal space equivalent to a 3" pipe. How the ash build up affects the flow is beyond my wattage.
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."


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av8r
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos
Location: Near Owego, NY

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 12:49 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:
av8r wrote:I guess what it boils down to is that it isn't the reduction in internal area that causes the issue as much as the effect the collection of ash has on the laminar flow characteristics of the air in the pipe. Depending on each install and it's inherent turbulence, the amount of ash that will affect the draft will be different.
Calculations in my low wattage brain say if a 6" pipe is half full of ash then you only have internal space equivalent to a 3" pipe. How the ash build up affects the flow is beyond my wattage.
Me too...I used the internet and a friend who is a physicist!
"Fools you are. To say you learn by your experience. I prefer to profit by others' mistakes and avoid the price of my own."

- Otto von Bismarck

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coaledsweat
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Location: Guilford, Connecticut

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 3:10 pm

av8r wrote: Me too...I used the internet and a friend who is a physicist!
I hope you aren't talking to the guy in your avatar. :)
Last edited by coaledsweat on Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing is impossible for people who don't have to do it themselves.

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av8r
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Posts: 1163
Joined: Thu. Dec. 06, 2007 12:07 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos
Location: Near Owego, NY

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 3:20 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
av8r wrote: Me too...I used the internet and a friend who is a physicist!
I hope you arn't talking to the guy in your avatar. :)
naww....he's on vacation right now...
"Fools you are. To say you learn by your experience. I prefer to profit by others' mistakes and avoid the price of my own."

- Otto von Bismarck

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CoalHeat
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Posts: 8327
Joined: Sat. Feb. 10, 2007 9:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 10:21 pm

av8r wrote:
coaledsweat wrote: I hope you arn't talking to the guy in your avatar. :)
naww....he's on vacation right now...
Choir Invisible
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

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Richard S.
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Posts: 12710
Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite
Location: NEPA

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 10:39 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote: Calculations in my low wattage brain say if a 6" pipe is half full of ash then you only have internal space equivalent to a 3" pipe. How the ash build up affects the flow is beyond my wattage.
Ummm no, think of a 6 inch circle. You cut in half so you have half moon shape. A 3 inch circle is going to fit in your half a six inch pipe. It's been too long since I had Geometry but I'd guess half a six inch pipe is at least double and probably more.
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CoalHeat
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Posts: 8327
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Wed. Dec. 26, 2007 10:44 pm

Richard S. wrote:
Wood'nCoal wrote: Calculations in my low wattage brain say if a 6" pipe is half full of ash then you only have internal space equivalent to a 3" pipe. How the ash build up affects the flow is beyond my wattage.
Ummm no, think of a 6 inch circle. You cut in half so you have half moon shape. A 3 inch circle is going to fit in your half a six inch pipe. It's been too long since I had Geometry but I'd guess half a six inch pipe is at least double and probably more than a 3 inch pipe.
Told ya I have a low wattage brain! you are correct, sir.
Heating a circa 1832 farmhouse with a Harman Magnafire Mark I & a 1959 EFM 350 (heating DHW).
100% Oil Free!
"It's what we learn after we think we know it all that counts."

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e.alleg
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Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520
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Post Thu. Dec. 27, 2007 10:46 am

I would think that the ash will build up at the first elbow, like when the snowplow keeps pushing snow against the curb. Eventually, the gasses can't flow smoothly through the T and will back up on some installs. It's probably best to install a "T" at the first elbow so it's easy to clean out.
Burning coal is definitely worth the extra work involved.
"Good enough" is not good enough.


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