Backup Power Supply

I need some info. I have Harman dvc-500. I am thinking about getting a backup power supply.
What do I get, and how much will it cost?

Gasoline generator. $500 and up.

After reading all the threads on backup power supplies, I agree with Yanche. I would get a propane or natural gas fired generator as they run clean and don't get gummed up with old gasoline. A good affordable UPS that actually works becomes a hobby in itself.

The little Honda inverter generators are amazing. Quiet and lightweight. Worth the extra $$

I was looking into this . Not to sure it it will work ..

smith10210 wrote:I was looking into this. Not to sure it it will work ..

That doesn't have much punch and may give you an hour or two at best. I prefer the whole house solution of a generator. Staying warm is good. Cooking , cleaning, watching TV with every light on in the house and going to the coal forum while your neighbors are freezing........... Priceless.

A couple of things on Inverters...

Modified Sine Wave Inverters - The least expensive type of modern inverter produces "modified" sine wave power. The waveform looks like a stair-step, where the power rises straight from zero to upper peak voltage*, straight back to zero, and straight to lower peak voltage, resting at each point for a moment.

Modified sine wave inverters will run many household appliances such a televisions, radios and microwaves with occasional minor electrical "noise" present. Sensitive equipment like battery chargers, tools with variable speed motors, laser printers and certain heating controllers (such as those used by Toyostoves) will run erratically or not at all with modified sine wave power.

Motors/Fans, etc.. may hum a bit using this type of inverter....Many UPS battery backups use this type of inverter.

BEST CHOICE....Also more $$$
True Sine Wave Inverters - The power supplied by utility companies and engine generators is a true sine wave form. This is the most reliable waveform for household use. True sine wave power passes from the upper and lower peak voltages in a smooth curved wave, rather than the stair-step of the modified sine wave.

All appliances and electronic equipment will run as intended when using sine wave power. True sine wave inverters will produce AC power as good as or better than utility power, ensuring that even the most sensitive equipment will run properly. While sine wave inverters are more expensive than modified sine wave models, the quality of their waveform can be a definite advantage.

You can get a good generator for the price of a good inverter/Battery backup.

WNY wrote:A couple of things on Inverters...

You can get a good generator for the price of a good inverter/Battery backup.

Just beware as many of the gasoline generators out there produce modified sine wave output and could cause the same types of issues you mention regarding inverters.

If running your heat is mostly what you are concerned with, the latest Pep Boys flyer has a small 950W ??? generator air compressor combo for $80 after rebate. Just don't run it in your house & don't expect it to last like a diesel genset.

coaledsweat wrote:

smith10210 wrote:I was looking into this. Not to sure it it will work ..

That doesn't have much punch and may give you an hour or two at best. I prefer the whole house solution of a generator. Staying warm is good. Cooking , cleaning, watching TV with every light on in the house and going to the coal forum while your neighbors are freezing........... Priceless.

I do the same. I think alot of whole house generators will be sold in Oklahoma soon. Some of those folks have been without power for 2 weeks and may not get it back until Christmas. I used a gasoline 5kw unit for alot of years but it is not safe or practical to keep a large amount of gas around. Plus with only 5kw, I had to "manage" the load all the time. Can't let the well pump run if the refrigerator is on etc. Propane or natural gas is the way to go. No natural gas here so I had a 1000 gallon propane tank buried and a 15 kw gen installed. I've got a 200 amp transfer switch and everything goes on backup.

harman's recommended back-up power inverter for it's magnum stoker is a msw unit that the dealer sells for over $500, and is way overpriced for such a small wattage. pure sine wave inverters are for specific applications & the magnum stoker is not one of them. your home & office pc is most likely backed-up in the event of a power failure, brown-out or over-voltage by a msw ups that you bought at staples, best buy or elsewhere.

i bought a 'husky brand' msw 400 watt inverter at home depot for $39 and I've run my stoker off a 12v/24ah yuasa sealed lead acid battery for over 2 hours with no problems. I have 8 of these batteries on hand for such an emergency but a marine or car battery will do. the marine batteries are better since they are designed to run a motor (as a trolling motor), and the car batteries are designed to deliver high amps (to the starter) to start an engine.

lots of useful information on inverters can be found at this site...

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/inverter_faq.html

a cheap inverter can come in handy when someone hits a telephone pole down the street or during an ice storm downing power lines, but are not a solution to long term outages when a generator is a more viable solution.

keep in mind that if you are using a portable generator and back feeding power thru an outlet in your house (even with the main off) that the neutral is still connected to the street lines and the risk of electrocution to utility workers is a possibility and should never be done. the generator should be directly connected to the appliance you wish to run.

tom

I have to agree with Ginski and Kirk on this one, Harman's reccomendation is a unit from a company called Surefire, they make a unit called the stove sentry which provides an automatic switchover from utility to battery power and back again just as any office type UPS would do. The difference is that they use an external 12V battery such as a deep cycle or gel cell. There are other manufacturers of this type of unit also, Tripp Lite, Xantrex (Heart Interface) come to mind. They are common in the RV industry with people who want AC power while on the road, but don't want to run a generator. Prices on the smaller Tripp Lite unts are in the $300 range new, but can be had on Ebay for less.

To me a generator is only viable if it is fully automatic and will startup and transfer power automatically. These whole house generators can add up to a sizable investment especially if you have to pay someone for installation.

I use a unit from Tripp Lite, an older model called the APS512. I have it attached to a size 29 deep cycle marine battery. It is rated for 500VA continuous and 1000VA surge so it has no problem running my system. I have measured my running current and calculated an 8 to 12 hour run time on battery power. It has an internal charger that adjusts charging current in proportion to battery voltage and wil maintain a float charge when the battery is fully charged. The switchover to battery power is almost instantaneous, and it will swith back to utility power a few seconds after power is restored. It also provides a good degree of surge protection to all the electrical devices that are attached.

My goal with this system was to maintain power to the boiler to keep it lit if the power were to fail. Our power doesn't go out all that often and when it does, its usually for just a few minutes or maybe an hour or two at the most.

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We had a transformer explode a few nights ago. It was on a pole down the street and made for an exciting 2:30 AM wake up. I went down to my server in the basement, shut it down and grabbed my APC 1400 SmartUPS that I paid $60 for many years ago. I carried it up the stairs and plugged the stove into it. 4 hours later it still had 70% capacity and my home was still 70 degrees. I added a second pigtail to allow me to connect a deep cycle battery from my RV to extend the run times. I'd bet I can get 24 hours or more with this setup.

my Keystoker has the grate fan always running. either with a 5" or 6" burn or on the timer. it never shuts off. we lost power last week for about 10 or so hours and the stove died in 5 minutes. does the Harman stoker need the grate motor always running to keep the fire going? is there some type of draft through the bed to keep it going like a hand fired unit , when you loose power ? just wondering , thank you , ken

It's my understanding that due to the size of the coal used in a stoker, you must have forced combustion air all the time or the fire dies. I think some units may shut the blower down for very brief periods during idle (less than a minute), but much longer than 3 minutes and the fire dies.