Keystoker Owners Combustion Fan Question

A Coal stoker furnace or stove controls most operations including automatically feeding the coal. They are quite similar to any conventional oil and gas units and easily operated for extended periods of time. They commonly use rice coal but may use larger sizes like buckwheat. They can be used as primary heat, supplementary heat or have a dual set up with your existing oil/gas furnace.
jrn8265
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Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160
Location: Near Coal Country, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 8:35 am

I notice my Combustion fan (one that keeps the fire going) on my Koker is very warm. I can put my hand on it ok though so it is not hot. Now the fan had squeeled a bit last year and I pryed a bit of hose underneith it and the squeeling stopped. I forget when it was new if the fan normally runs very warm or not. Anyway is it normal for these to run very warm? I have had the same blower now for 4 seasons. Appreciate your thoughts. Might just change it as it seems easy to do and have an extra blower. Thanks!


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blrman07
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Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.
Location: Girardville Pa.

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 8:47 am

The motor is telling you that it is going to take a siesta at the time when you least expect it and need it to run. Sometimes the motors will run for a long long time. Others will die in a few years. You might get some time out of it by oiling it and ensuring the fan turns freely.

I would make arrangements to replace it as soon as possible or at a minimum know where you can get your hands on one quickly.

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WNYRob
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Koker controlled with CoalTrol
Location: Springville, NY

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 9:32 am

jrn - head over to Grainger's website and order a replacement blower before it is too late!!! As a plus, in my exeriences, Grainger has extremely fast shipping.

I got a PSC (not shaded pole) blower for my koker before this winter and am currently using it with the OEM sitting as back up. I changed it out because it seems like other members of NEPA feel the PSC blowers are more dependable and energy efficient than the FASCO shaded poles. Take the part number of the original FASCO blower installed on the koker and look up the replacement at the electricmotorwarehouse site I listed below. I believe the replacement is Dayton # 1TDP3. Just make sure the specs are similar and especially that the outlet flange is the same diameter so it fits in the koker's sleeve.

The following website gives a list of replacements for Fasco blowers : http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/fasco/fasco_blower.htm

This website gives the specs on the TDP3 : http://www.grainger.com/search?searchQuery=1TDP3& ... sst=subset

If you get your coal bed going good enough, you can probably swap out the blower without even losing your fire.

CoaLen
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Coal Size/Type: rice
Location: Northeast Ohio

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 10:21 am

For what it's worth, I put my hand around my combustion motor and I would describe it as comfortably warm. Not hot at all.
I do think the idea of having a backup on hand is a good one. I am contemplating getting both a stoker and combustion motor to put "on the shelf".
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

jrn8265
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Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160
Location: Near Coal Country, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 10:29 am

WnyRob and all, thank you very much.

I have a fasco blower already that I can replace it with.

This may be a stupid question but both wires coming off of the fasco blower are black.

What end goes to which on the pigtail that connects to the gear motor or does it not matter?

I am used to dealing with red and black!

Also, WnyRob, would you replace it with the fire still going? No CO concerns or hopper fire concerns?

Thanks!

WNYRob
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Koker controlled with CoalTrol
Location: Springville, NY

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 11:32 am

I would think you would be ok. Usually your draft increases when you turn your comb. fan off because you are not forcing air into the fire box. Any air the stove draft does draw will be sucked through the combustion fan hole. During our warm spell, I removed my fan and vacuumed out under the grates and replaced the fan without losing my fire.

Just have everything (fan, electrical tools, wire nuts, pre-determine which wires will go where) ready to go. Take the restrictor plate off the old fan (maybe replace it with duct tape for the mean while) and put it on the new one before you switch them. If you fire gets low you can quickly slide the new fan in (after connecting the electrical) and let it run for a little bit to liven the fire, then button up the job. You can even leave the old fan running while you are removing the set screw (this is kind of a pain to get to, especially when you are in a hurry) that keeps it in place, which will limit the time the stove is without the fan.

Just be careful of where your wires are going because I think the stoker's wiring comes out of the combustion fan's electrical box also, so you don't want to accidentally disconnect those and not put them back together. Keystoker has updated manuals that show the kokers electrical pathways much better than the manual that came with our stoves.

jrn8265
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Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160
Location: Near Coal Country, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 12:54 pm

WNYRob, thanks for the info!

Just checked out the new manual, very nice!

My problem (I am not very electrically technical, though learning) is that the fasco blower has two black wires. How do you know which wire goes to the red connector on the gear unit?

jrn8265
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Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160
Location: Near Coal Country, PA

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 1:12 pm

Just did some research and I think I found the answer.....

"AC single phase induction motors will only run in one direction. The polarity does not matter."

So I think I can connect either black wire from the fasco to either the red or black off the gear motor. Does not matter.

Anybody confirm this?

Thanks!


LiftedAWDAstro
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker 160
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker
Location: New Haven, NY

Post Fri. Jan. 25, 2013 2:06 pm

I doesn't matter which wire goes where. (I am an industrial electrician) :D

jrn8265
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Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160
Location: Near Coal Country, PA

Post Mon. Jan. 28, 2013 7:33 am

Thanks much. I replaced it on Saturday and it really needed it. The old Fasco Fan portion seemed to have started to pull away from the motor section. The new Fasco is quiet, and my fire is glowing! Hopefully this part will last me ten years!

WNYRob
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Koker controlled with CoalTrol
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Post Mon. Jan. 28, 2013 8:22 am

Did you keep the fire alive while you changed it out???

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coalkirk
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Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: anthracite/rice coal
Location: Forest Hill MD

Post Mon. Jan. 28, 2013 8:35 am

CoaLen wrote:For what it's worth, I put my hand around my combustion motor and I would describe it as comfortably warm. Not hot at all.
I do think the idea of having a backup on hand is a good one. I am contemplating getting both a stoker and combustion motor to put "on the shelf".
My stoker motor runs very hot. Always has. I cut a hole in the sheet metal cover over it and installed a muffin. It did cool the stoker motor down quite a bit but it blew coal dust all over my boiler room so I removed it. now I just removed the entire sheet metal cover from the top of the stoker to let it ventilate better. I also have a spare stoker motor and combustion blower on the shelf.
muffin fan.jpg
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Burning rice coal in a 1981 EFM DF520, nut coal in a hand fired Jotul 507.

WNYRob
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Posts: 264
Joined: Thu. Apr. 14, 2011 12:13 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Koker controlled with CoalTrol
Location: Springville, NY

Post Mon. Jan. 28, 2013 11:27 am

Not sure how the back end of your stove is configured but with the koker, the combustion fan lies directly below the rear end of the stoker and its gear box. I also have a 3” line running outside air for combustion and have the line terminated about 3-4 inches in front of the combustion fan intake. With this set up, I have noticed that the comb. fan, stoker and gear box are constantly bathed by cold air as it flows from the pipe to the fan. Due to this, everything back there is staying nice and cool which may or may not keep the motors in better condition due to the absence of excessive heat.

Not sure if this is possible with your Harmon, but it may help keep things cooler near your combustion fan.

I'll try to remember to post a picture tonight of my set up.

jrn8265
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Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160
Location: Near Coal Country, PA

Post Tue. Jan. 29, 2013 6:12 am

I turned the Koker off for two hours just to be safe and then changed it. I could not have kept the fire going as there are 8 wires that needed to be connected, the whip screwed in, hole drilled for the shutter, shutter taken off old and put on new...took me 20 minutes to swap.

Question: I put my shutter 1/2 over the opening which is factory default. I noticed the draft was at .02 at 400 degrees (usually at .03) when 35 degrees outside,no wind.

So, I covered another 1/4 inch of the airway around the shutter with a piece of Ducktape and the draft was back up to .03.

Anybody see a problem using ducktape for this instead of moving the shutter itself? I notice the temp is about 115 where the tape is put on so not very hot.

CoaLen
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Coal Size/Type: rice
Location: Northeast Ohio

Post Tue. Jan. 29, 2013 6:21 am

If adjustment is needed I'd move the shutter. The duct tape won't melt but will become dry and brittle over time.
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