Stove Won't Stay Lit

A Coal stoker furnace or stove controls most operations including automatically feeding the coal. They are quite similar to any conventional oil and gas units and easily operated for extended periods of time. They commonly use rice coal but may use larger sizes like buckwheat. They can be used as primary heat, supplementary heat or have a dual set up with your existing oil/gas furnace.
mhoose
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Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Post Thu. Dec. 08, 2011 11:26 pm

Nope, Grumpy, that's not it, but I saw them mentioned in the same breath wherever it was I saw the thing about flare pieces.


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McGiever
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Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Thu. Dec. 08, 2011 11:39 pm

mhoose wrote:
tsb wrote:The cam may be loose on the feed motor shaft.
The cam moves the carpet and feeds the coal.
I'm still not positive what you're referring to, but more observation: When I hear the motor run (or make it run by setting the Coaltrol to feed) I can see above the motor a part that moves apparently on a circular track and moves a piece that connects inside the stove back and forth. That part is moving, I can't see what is happening inside the stove.
Yup. that's the cam part you're seeing rotating. Carpet is attached to that and should move accordingly.

Maybe you have a blockage, something stuck or wedged in there and holding back the coal being fed onto grate. Are you missing one of your gloves? :o
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

mhoose
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Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 9:50 am

McGiever wrote:
mhoose wrote: I'm still not positive what you're referring to, but more observation: When I hear the motor run (or make it run by setting the Coaltrol to feed) I can see above the motor a part that moves apparently on a circular track and moves a piece that connects inside the stove back and forth. That part is moving, I can't see what is happening inside the stove.
Yup. that's the cam part you're seeing rotating. Carpet is attached to that and should move accordingly.

Maybe you have a blockage, something stuck or wedged in there and holding back the coal being fed onto grate. Are you missing one of your gloves? :o
Nope, gloves are both there, but I think you may have hit the nail on the head. This morning the stove is running fine. I did get up during the night and give it some manual assistance (I physically moved coal forward so it would be over the air holes.) I actually expected it to be out this morning, but to my surprise it was going fairly strong.

So the next question is, how do I prevent this from happening again? Is there a way to get in there and sort of clean out any little bits that may be jamming or blocking? My plan today is to let the hopper get kind of empty so I can see where the coal exits the hopper into the stove and see if I can determine anything there that might have causes a jam/block. That's all after work, of course.

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freetown fred
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 9:53 am

you got it my friend, process of elimination ;)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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WNY
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Joined: Mon. Nov. 14, 2005 8:40 am
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon
Location: Cuba, NY
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Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 1:02 pm

Check the CAM tightness, they are just threaded onto the gearbox shaft, SOMETIMES, if it gets bound up, it comes loose. Mine did that once. The motor and everything was working fine, it just wasn't pushing the coal and would go out. OR somethign is bent or loosened up, Check the stoker motor mounting nuts came loose, the pusher plate got bent, etc.....
- Dave
Hyfire I & Keystoker 90K heating an 1890 Victorian
- Amsoil Authorized T1 Certified Dealer

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McGiever
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Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV

Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 1:25 pm

mhoose wrote:
McGiever wrote: Yup. that's the cam part you're seeing rotating. Carpet is attached to that and should move accordingly.

Maybe you have a blockage, something stuck or wedged in there and holding back the coal being fed onto grate. Are you missing one of your gloves? :o
Nope, gloves are both there, but I think you may have hit the nail on the head. This morning the stove is running fine. I did get up during the night and give it some manual assistance (I physically moved coal forward so it would be over the air holes.) I actually expected it to be out this morning, but to my surprise it was going fairly strong.

So the next question is, how do I prevent this from happening again? Is there a way to get in there and sort of clean out any little bits that may be jamming or blocking? My plan today is to let the hopper get kind of empty so I can see where the coal exits the hopper into the stove and see if I can determine anything there that might have causes a jam/block. That's all after work, of course.
Since you are looking things over, when did you last look to see if you have an accumulation of fines under your grate? If it was accumulated fines hindering coal being pushed above the grate, there maybe some below the grate also.
SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE

coalnewbie
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Posts: 6211
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22
Location: Chester, NY

Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 2:28 pm

Fourth year with my Pocono and I (sort of) had the same issues, so humor me here. Remove the combustion blower, clean up the fan blades with a little wire brush finishing by compressed air and a vacuum cleaner, I mean clean! Clean out the fan outlet to the fire underside and I mean clean. With mine it was a combination of too little air from the fan as the blades were cr apped up and then particles of coal were killing the air flow. So, with a thin coal bed it could kinda go, thick coal bed - it stopped the air dead as the squirrel cage blades died under any sort of back pressure. Also those shaded pole motors have very definite life spans. think replacement now or soon. Now my Poco roars but more than max=30 there are red coals off the end. Now, I am looking at a new type of motor with mcgeivers guidance. I have my beady eye on Fasco - I suspect sub standard for the job. Drives me crazy an it's tough to diagnose as then you test the motor as it appears to be running. It spins just as fast but the back pressure characteristics are changing as it wears out. At least that is what is was for me.
Posted by an unreasonable adult.

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theo
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Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2
Location: 50 Mile North of Pittsburgh

Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 2:35 pm

it almost sounds like the coal is not feeding from the hopper unto the carpet, look back behind the stove and see if you see any movement ( back and forth action ) on your carpet. maybe your coal is hung up in the hopper or were it drops unto the carpet. Have you had to add any coal to your hopper? is the coal wet? just a few things to check for. keep us posted on what you may find,,,, that way we all can learn a little something ! :D
The first half of your life is runied by your parent's and the second half of your life is ruined by your kid's!! " I wondered why that frisbe was getting bigger, Then it HIT me!! " The early bird may get the worm,,,, but the second mouse get's the cheese!!


mhoose
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Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 3:17 pm

WNY wrote:Check the CAM tightness, they are just threaded onto the gearbox shaft, SOMETIMES, if it gets bound up, it comes loose. Mine did that once. The motor and everything was working fine, it just wasn't pushing the coal and would go out. OR somethign is bent or loosened up, Check the stoker motor mounting nuts came loose, the pusher plate got bent, etc.....
I will indeed check those - I can see the cam, of course, as well as the mounts. The cam does move appropriately, so I'm thinking that instead of being loose there was something blocking the coal from moving. (Notice I used past tense, it seems to be working fine today.)

mhoose
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Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 3:22 pm

McGiever wrote:
mhoose wrote:
I have thought about that, but I don't know how to access under the grate. It's all enclosed and from the back it looks as though it goes through the wall of the stove and the motor, fan, etc. are mounted there with a gasket on it - looks like a huge deal to get out and only a small chance there is something in there. If there's an easy way I'm not seeing please let me know.

coalnewbie
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Posts: 6211
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22
Location: Chester, NY

Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 3:23 pm

So theo,

The reason for my logic is the fire starts the exhaust thermistor says start to feed coal and even switch on the dist fans. The coal bed gets thicker, the back pressure builds the fire gets cold, the thermistor says time to shut it down the fire is out - all she wrote. You killed the fire triangle first by no air and then by no air nor new coal. There are very few variables here. I am assuming the coal is OK.
Posted by an unreasonable adult.

mhoose
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Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 3:29 pm

theo wrote:it almost sounds like the coal is not feeding from the hopper unto the carpet, look back behind the stove and see if you see any movement ( back and forth action ) on your carpet. maybe your coal is hung up in the hopper or were it drops unto the carpet. Have you had to add any coal to your hopper? is the coal wet? just a few things to check for. keep us posted on what you may find,,,, that way we all can learn a little something ! :D
Thanks for the reply, and I think you hit the nail on the head. I do see back and forth movement behind the stove, so I think there was something maybe blocking the movement from actually moving coal. FWIW, I had the hopper full prior to this, I usually add about a hod per day. The coal is not wet. I'm purposely letting the coal level get low now so I can see where it enters the stove from the hopper to see if it looks like there is/was anything there hindering. My guess is whatever it was is no longer there.

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freetown fred
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Location: Freetown,NY 13803

Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 3:39 pm

Outstanding--keep us posted :)
"A people that values it's privileges above it's principals, soon loses both"--Dwight D Eisenhower

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theo
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Stove/Furnace Make: LL
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire 2
Location: 50 Mile North of Pittsburgh

Post Fri. Dec. 09, 2011 3:48 pm

i sorta had that problem with my Harman last heating season. only the one side of the grate about 3/4 way across was burning back in the back on the grate, the other 1/4 of the grate was not burning. Well we were almost at the end of the season so I planned to just let her burn that way till I shut her down. I was going to take the Harman out and put the hyfire in its place. when I took the hopper off the back of the Harman I found about a golfball size of coal stuck in the pusher block, that was the problem. somehow that bigger chunk of coal made it through the breaker at the coal yard or the fellow that brought my coal was hauling some other type of coal and it may have been in the bed of the truck when he loaded my rice coal
The first half of your life is runied by your parent's and the second half of your life is ruined by your kid's!! " I wondered why that frisbe was getting bigger, Then it HIT me!! " The early bird may get the worm,,,, but the second mouse get's the cheese!!

mhoose
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Posts: 13
Joined: Thu. Dec. 08, 2011 8:25 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Post Sat. Dec. 10, 2011 9:34 pm

I guess this one has to be marked "solved." I never figured out what it was, but I suspect there was something jammed, preventing the coal from properly moving on the carpet. Glad it solved - we need it tonight with the forecast for temps in the teens and it being low 20s now


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