Iron Fireman Underfed Stokers Bit Vs Anthracite - Difference

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dave brode
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite
Location: Frostburg, Maryland [western]

Post Sat. Jan. 15, 2011 4:35 pm

Hello All,

I've seen many for bituminous [many still in service 'round here]. I've never seen one for anthracite, but I know that they existed. I have a owner's manual for one, but it shows no pics that tell me the difference. [says to use #1 or #2 buckwheat, and draft should be .02" to .05", btw]

Anyone know if the Tuyres were different? Pics, anyone?

TIA
Dave
Last edited by dave brode on Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LsFarm
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Post Sat. Jan. 15, 2011 6:04 pm

I used my S30 burning buck and pea anthracite.. I think the difference will be whether there is a refractory bed around the tuyers, or an ashpan underneath.. I'd think the tuyers would look more like an EFM's to burn Anth.

Greg L

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dave brode
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Posts: 478
Joined: Fri. Jan. 15, 2010 5:47 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite
Location: Frostburg, Maryland [western]

Post Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 1:50 am

Greg,

I read the old manual, and although it's not 100% clear to me, I believe that you are correct. The anth version had an ash compartment.

I am just curious [I don't want to trade my Kaa2 on one LOL], but I'd enjoy seeing an old Iron fireman for anth.

Thanks.
Dave

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Short Bus
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Kewanee boiler with Anchor stoker
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Post Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 2:49 am

Follow this link and you will find a picture of three stoker heads for Will-Burt one of them has a funny ring around it and the other two have what I would consider traditional twyers for Bituminous.
Combustioneer Model 77
Maybe this is the difference?


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europachris
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Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
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Post Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 9:51 am

As far as I know, most all of the Iron Fireman-style stokers were for burning bituminous coal and intended to install into hand-fed boilers for automation. The basic layout of the stoker is to install it through the ash pit door and in some fashion make a firebrick or refractory cement hearth around the pot. The ash is removed usually daily as a "clinker" - all fused into a lump/ring.

To set one up as an anthracite burner, the stoker would have to be raised up and installed higher in the boiler to allow for an ashpan to be installed underneath. This is what Greg (LsFarm) did with his Iron Fireman (as well as many other mods to it for better anthracite combustion). Anthracite has usually more ash than good bituminous, but more importantly, the ash doesn't fuse and clinker like bituminous ash, so having an ash pan is important for burning it.

Chris

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dave brode
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite
Location: Frostburg, Maryland [western]

Post Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 1:49 pm

Chris,

I understand now. Since the anth did not clinker like the bit coal, the operation was different. Ash pan with anth. Makes sence.

I believe that I was wrong on the name of the parts. What might be called the pot [or retort?] is different between the two?

Fwiw: Again, the Iron fireman [and other brands] of underfed stokers are still common here. The bit coal around here varies widely, and so the ease of use can range widely too. My Iron fireman was mated to a small boiler, with a fire box that was apx 20" x 22". I found it to be more finicky with the small firebox. Fellows that have larger boilers seem to have not have as much problem using less than ideal coal, compared to my old setup. Perhaps the larger firebox allows room for the fine ash to blow clear, whereas with mine, the fine ash had nowhere to go.

If the coal was too "good", clinkers would not form, and I ended up shoveling fine ash out from each side [I made a 3" or so wide shovel for that purpose]. The local big vein coal does not make good stoker coal, although it usually is the best for hand firing. Some coal yards will sell small sized "nut" coal for stoker use that's made from the high quality [lower ash] big vein, but it didn't work well in the stokers.

The seams called pittsburgh, little inch and freeport worked the best for me. With the right coal, it was much less work, as there was much less fine ash, and mostly clinker. Sometimes, chunks that would not even come out of the door opening. They seem to work best with at least 6 to 8" or ash/clinker left on top of the pot. Cleaning out leaving just the fire doesn't seem to work well, until some ash/clinker builds up.

One other thing: I know of noone that monitors draft with the underfed setups here. I bet most guys are overdrafting and wasting coal. Nobody dampers the flue, and baros are never used.

Interesting stuff.

Dave

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dave brode
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
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Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite
Location: Frostburg, Maryland [western]

Post Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 1:56 pm

Btw: I found coal used to clinkler ratio was normally apx 3-1 in volume. Three 5 gallon buckets of coal [at apx 35 lbs each] would result in apx one 5 gallon bucket of clinker [at apx 50 lbs each]

Dave

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Berlin
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Post Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 2:17 pm

Three to one is pretty surprising, it must have been some high ash coal or possibly a lot of coke left with the clinker. using a blend of low ash kentucky and ohio coals I get about four 5-gallon pails to one softball sized clinker. using other coals I've never had anything much different for clinker volume; I almost never shovel loose ash, usually I rake it over the burnpot and wait untill the next day when I remove it as clinker. It might be the coal or perhaps the firebox's small size contributed to excessive coke production which became mixed with the ash.

As far as differences between anthracite and bit stokers, usually the anthracite tuyeres will be a series of rings or plates such as the EFM, this allows the air to begin coming from deep within the burnpot because for a given BTU output anthracite coal will need more air and with it's higher ignition temps, it needs it earlier in the burn cycle and through more ports to avoid high air velocities near the top of the fire which will encourage clinkers to form. Having said that all the anthracite coal that I've run in my model 77 or other stokers has worked fine, and it burns very well in a model 77 stoker; I used buckwheat size blaschack when I tried it, pea might work too. Anthracite will work fine in just about any hearth-set clinkering type bit stoker; It must be fired with plenty of air, a good deep ash bed, and at a feed rate that will allow it to clinker, and because of the higher % of ash, the clinker will have to be tended more often.


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dave brode
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Posts: 478
Joined: Fri. Jan. 15, 2010 5:47 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite
Location: Frostburg, Maryland [western]

Post Sun. Jan. 16, 2011 2:34 pm

Berlin,

I can't say for sure, but I suspect that stoker coal here is usually made from whatever is left over. The better stuff is hauled to the power plants. There are at least four plants that local mines haul to. My area was once well known for good quality coal, but it could be that you have access to much better stoker coal.

When all was well, it went as you describe. Clean out, rake a pile over the pot, and it would clinker back up.

My old setup served me well, nonetheless. Although, using the Kaa2 with even the less than ideal "bargain" rice that I'm burning is a cake walk in comparison. Every time I start to gripe about walking the bucket of fine anthracite ash out and tossing it over the bank behind my house, I remember the buckets of clinkers that I had to haul off in my trailer. [90 five gallon buckets was a load]

Thanks for the parts difference explaination.

Dave

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europachris
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Post Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 3:20 pm

dave brode wrote:Btw: I found coal used to clinkler ratio was normally apx 3-1 in volume. Three 5 gallon buckets of coal [at apx 35 lbs each] would result in apx one 5 gallon bucket of clinker [at apx 50 lbs each]

Dave
Holy crap, that's a lot of clinker! :shock: My coal is 5.5% ash, so if I burn 100 lbs. I'll get 5.5 lbs. of ash, which if fused into a clinker isn't very big.

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dave brode
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Posts: 478
Joined: Fri. Jan. 15, 2010 5:47 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite
Location: Frostburg, Maryland [western]

Post Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:13 pm

Chris,

Might be hard to believe, but that was typical. Most guys here prefer a coal that'll clinker [bust up to get out the door type clinker] regardless of amount. More convenient than removing fine ash. I wonder what your clinker is like? A "good" clinkering coal here makes rock/glass like clinker. Big chunks. Maybe everyone here is overfeeding air?

Let us know what the ash by weight is. [not thier #].

Dave

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europachris
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Post Thu. Jan. 20, 2011 9:18 am

dave brode wrote:Chris,

Might be hard to believe, but that was typical. Most guys here prefer a coal that'll clinker [bust up to get out the door type clinker] regardless of amount. More convenient than removing fine ash. I wonder what your clinker is like? A "good" clinkering coal here makes rock/glass like clinker. Big chunks. Maybe everyone here is overfeeding air?

Let us know what the ash by weight is. [not thier #].

Dave

I pulled out two nice clinkers this morning - they were quite dense, maybe 1-1/2~2 pounds each. The fire was cleaned last night, so that was from ~12 hours of burning and 40# of coal. They sorta "floated" up out of the fire - I didn't have to go digging for them. I'll get pics tonight - they were a little hot this morning!

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