Question About Hardware
- av8r
- Member
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 06, 2007 12:07 pm
- Location: Near Owego, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Each year I disassemble the stove in the fall to give it a good once over. The first year I learned a good lesson. The threads on the 4 bolts that hold the stoker assembly to the stove body on my Hearth model are exposed to the internals of the stove. Upon trying to remove these I snapped 2 of them off (yes, I used penetrating oil and was gentle) I suppose this is due to at least 2 issues:
1) The hardware is inexpensive and exposed to a corrosive environment which causes it to break down very quickly thus making removal difficult.
2) The heat cycling that the hardware is exposed to must cause significant degradation of the temper/hardness of the material, thus making it quite weak and easy to snap under torque.
I drilled out the damaged bolts, and ran a tap through the nuts which are welded onto the stove in such a way as to make them nearly impossible to replace. I switched to stainless bolts and began using high temp anti seize which seems to work pretty well. I had one bolt this fall that took me about 20 minutes to remove as even coated with anti seize it had corroded badly and had to be worked gently back and forth to remove it. The threads were badly galled so I replaced it.
I may have missed it in the initial setup guide, but does/did LL recommend coating these bolts? Are the new Hearth models built the same way with these bolts exposed? Are the attachment nuts still welded in placed in the same fashion?
Thanks
1) The hardware is inexpensive and exposed to a corrosive environment which causes it to break down very quickly thus making removal difficult.
2) The heat cycling that the hardware is exposed to must cause significant degradation of the temper/hardness of the material, thus making it quite weak and easy to snap under torque.
I drilled out the damaged bolts, and ran a tap through the nuts which are welded onto the stove in such a way as to make them nearly impossible to replace. I switched to stainless bolts and began using high temp anti seize which seems to work pretty well. I had one bolt this fall that took me about 20 minutes to remove as even coated with anti seize it had corroded badly and had to be worked gently back and forth to remove it. The threads were badly galled so I replaced it.
I may have missed it in the initial setup guide, but does/did LL recommend coating these bolts? Are the new Hearth models built the same way with these bolts exposed? Are the attachment nuts still welded in placed in the same fashion?
Thanks
- av8r
- Member
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 06, 2007 12:07 pm
- Location: Near Owego, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Explain to me why you shouldn't use stainless with mild steel? I was told this resolves the galling issue found when you use stainless with stainless?
Here's the stuff I use...good to 1800f
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Here's the stuff I use...good to 1800f
**Broken Image Link(s) Removed**
- av8r
- Member
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 06, 2007 12:07 pm
- Location: Near Owego, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Fair enough!Brian wrote:Well I can't answer your question! But I can tell you working with high pressure steam for 20 yrs is when you mix stainless with carbon steel you usually need the the band saw or torch to make your cut.
- k9 Bara
- Member
- Posts: 499
- Joined: Mon. Mar. 31, 2008 11:27 am
- Location: Red Creek, Fair Haven area NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: 1996 EFM 520 DF
- Coal Size/Type: Buck / Reading
I buy used stoves, refurb them and sell them. I use SS with carbon and a good amount of anti seize compound. I have had no issues when removing bolts after stove has been used.
- WNY
- Member
- Posts: 6307
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 14, 2005 8:40 am
- Location: Cuba, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
- Coal Size/Type: Rice
- Contact:
I had the same problem when changing gaskets, and broke one bolt, redrilled and tapped and used the Hi Temp Copper never seize....
I also suggested to Dave & Matt at LL to use a u-nut or something, that is replaceable, kinda like the u-nut fender bolts on vehicles. OR have them put the bolts (or studs) on from the inside and weld them on, so the threads are on the outside.
I also suggested to Dave & Matt at LL to use a u-nut or something, that is replaceable, kinda like the u-nut fender bolts on vehicles. OR have them put the bolts (or studs) on from the inside and weld them on, so the threads are on the outside.
Well you just got me out of bed.Kept thinking about this post.(Ya Ya I must be a nut). Well here goes (carbon steel )and stainless steal are like oil & vinegar. I sound like Sheldon Brown the cook. Well mix the two medals with a soft alloy (copper!!!!!) and Its like the soldering process with the heat of a coal stove.
- Flyer5
- Member
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- Joined: Sun. Oct. 21, 2007 4:23 pm
- Location: Montrose PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
- Contact:
That's a pretty good idea . I wish this thread started before I just received 250 of the extension boxes with the nuts welded on . DaveWNY wrote:I had the same problem when changing gaskets, and broke one bolt, redrilled and tapped and used the Hi Temp Copper never seize....
I also suggested to Dave & Matt at LL to use a u-nut or something, that is replaceable, kinda like the u-nut fender bolts on vehicles. OR have them put the bolts (or studs) on from the inside and weld them on, so the threads are on the outside.
- av8r
- Member
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 06, 2007 12:07 pm
- Location: Near Owego, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
LOL....I mentioned this to the previous owner of LL. He just told me he hadn't had any issues with this.Flyer5 wrote:That's a pretty good idea . I wish this thread started before I just received 250 of the extension boxes with the nuts welded on . DaveWNY wrote:I had the same problem when changing gaskets, and broke one bolt, redrilled and tapped and used the Hi Temp Copper never seize....
I also suggested to Dave & Matt at LL to use a u-nut or something, that is replaceable, kinda like the u-nut fender bolts on vehicles. OR have them put the bolts (or studs) on from the inside and weld them on, so the threads are on the outside.
- Flyer5
- Member
- Posts: 10376
- Joined: Sun. Oct. 21, 2007 4:23 pm
- Location: Montrose PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
- Contact:
Another thing you can do is put the bolt in from the inside make it like a stud ,then use washers and nuts on the outside . That should be a simple fix .The problem with using stainless is if it gets overtightened the threads stretch causing the same issue of the bolt breaking on removal . Dave Daveav8r wrote:LOL....I mentioned this to the previous owner of LL. He just told me he hadn't had any issues with this.Flyer5 wrote: That's a pretty good idea . I wish this thread started before I just received 250 of the extension boxes with the nuts welded on . Dave
- av8r
- Member
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: Thu. Dec. 06, 2007 12:07 pm
- Location: Near Owego, NY
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
I'm not sure that will work without slotting the bolt hole to allow for the length of the bolt between the double steel. Also, how would you keep the bolt from turning? Have you tried this?Flyer5 wrote:Another thing you can do is put the bolt in from the inside make it like a stud ,then use washers and nuts on the outside . That should be a simple fix .The problem with using stainless is if it gets overtightened the threads stretch causing the same issue of the bolt breaking on removal . Dave Dave