Coalpail.com Forum

Hello to all the LL people here! I don't usually venture onto this side of the boards but I wanted to get any thoughts/advice on getting a LL Hearth model for in front of my existing wood burning fireplace. For a little background I have a EFM 520 running the hydronic heating in my house. I know and love how much of a beast that thing can be and I know I could keep the house in the upper 70s comfortably and hardly have the thing break a sweat. My home was build in 1995 has decent insulation and is about 2000 square feet on the main level. The fireplace is located in the great room which has cathedral ceilings and is open to I'd say half the house between all the hallways, dining room, and kitchen.

The reason I'm considering a Hearth for out there is one of the things I miss from my childhood is the place in the house to "get warm." I don't mind a cooler bedroom, extra rooms, etc but I loved being able to go into the kitchen and sit next to the stove and get warm. Back there we had my great-grandfathers kitchen range as one of the main heating sources. (Note I do hope to have that here one day too!)

Anyhow, any advice, tips, or testimonials on the Hearth model? Wanted to also make sure I"m not going to cook myself out of the house if I have one of those in the fireplace. And, that I'm not crazy for wanting another coal appliance when my EFM could easily keep me completely toasty for years to come.

I know from speaking to customers that have the hearth model love it . In your case the proper placement of the Coal-Trol thermostat will determine the regulation of the temperature of the room . When Automation Correct states 1 degree regulation of temperature they are very honest . One thing that can cause overshoots is trying to ramp up too fast like large offsets between day and night setbacks . I am sure you will be pleased with the hearth for this application . Hopefully some Hearth users will chime in . Thanks for considering a Leisure Line . Dave

Dave, thanks for posting back to me. I've been impressed having been on the boards for 4 years now at how great it seems to be dealing with the folks from Leisure Line. It's gone a long way to why I decided to start my search with Leisure Line that I've seen folks like you be so knowledgeable and so dedicated to customer service throughout the company.

I did notice that you list an AA boiler and a LL stove in your profile as your stoves. Do you run them both simultaneously during the winter like I was saying I might like to combining my EFM boiler for the "baseline" heating and the LL for the extra heat and the "warm spot" in the house? Just curious if other guys are doing that. I know a lot of people that run an oil burner or boiler in the background and coal to drop the price but not as many that are straight coal across all their appliances. Thanks again! ~Jeremy

rocketjeremy wrote:Dave, thanks for posting back to me. I've been impressed having been on the boards for 4 years now at how great it seems to be dealing with the folks from Leisure Line. It's gone a long way to why I decided to start my search with Leisure Line that I've seen folks like you be so knowledgeable and so dedicated to customer service throughout the company.

I did notice that you list an AA boiler and a LL stove in your profile as your stoves. Do you run them both simultaneously during the winter like I was saying I might like to combining my EFM boiler for the "baseline" heating and the LL for the extra heat and the "warm spot" in the house? Just curious if other guys are doing that. I know a lot of people that run an oil burner or boiler in the background and coal to drop the price but not as many that are straight coal across all their appliances. Thanks again! ~Jeremy

Yes , I ripped out my money hungry propane fireplace and installed a LL Lil Heater . My wife likes to be on the bake cycle in the winter . I have used a AA 130 for the past few yrs .Next yr it will be a LL boiler . I joke around that I was planning on installing a LL in my home so I bought the company . I always believed that LL was the best for the buck even before we purchased the company ,or even thought about purchasing it . Right place right time I guess . I have never been a good salesman but I believe in burning coal and the Leisure Line product so much it makes it easy ,and I love going to work everyday . Dave

I have had a L.L. Hearth for 3 years now. I have it sitting on a hearth of a downstairs fireplace. The stove works perfect. The Coaltrol holds temp within 1 degree of setting. I really have not had an overshoot problem. When I first start it up in a 62 degree room and key in 73 it might overshoot the 73 a bit. The easy remedy is just put in 70 and it may go a degree over but it will settle out the the right temp everytime. It seems to increase the feedrate until the room temp goes up a degree and then cut down the feedrate until it goes a degree under the setpoint. It will hold the temp within a degree where the stat is located in the room. I burn about 6 tons of coal through it a year running close to full power. I put a 5 gallon pail of rice in it in the morning and then going to bed at night. Empty the ash 1 time a day. I have the coaltrol set so perfect I can turn the fire all the way down to the point where I can clean out the flyash in the pipe with the stove still burning. That is control! I have never had a fire go out (unless I forgot to put coal in it). I clean flyash about 3 times a season. I heat about 3400 square feet with this unit. I burn into April in Connecticut where you want heat at night but not during the day. I can turn the fire down so the flames are about the size of a lit match and when I get home I can adjust the coaltrol if I need heat (I never timed it, but I can get a 90,000 BTU fire within about 30 minutes just by pushing a button). It throws off a lot of heat if you want it to. I have seen people with trouble turning down stoves. You will be happy with this unit. I use bagged coal and do not even own a coal shovel. The feeder mechanism has never given me any problem at all. I also have fed very wet coal through the unit and have never had a problem. I hear a lot of stoves have trouble with wet coal. I use Blazchack (spelling)? coal which has been pretty wet. The wet coal keeps the dust down when you pour it in the stove. My stove is in a finished basement and my dust level is nil to none. The people at the factory were helpful when I was installing the stove by answering a few questions I had (I think I talked to the owner). I think it took me about 3 hours to install and most of that time was spent cutting a sheetmetal plate to put up in the flu to seal the stove pipe in.

Jeff, Thank you for the positive (and informative) review of the LL Hearth. You answered a lot of my questions before I could even ask specific ones. It definitely sounds more and more like the stove for me. I like that you mentioned the "dust" issue as this stove would be in my primary living space. I'm also glad to hear the range of control it has with the different temperatures. I've been reading up on the Coal-Trol and I'm in love already. It certainly wouldn't be my "main" heat source but I love the idea of setting the boiler at like 66/68 and then letting the hearth being the main living area of the house up to whatever toasty temperature I want (above the 70 I usually have the boiler bring it to). I also like the ease of operation. Having the EFM boiler has spoiled me and I wouldn't want to go to hand fired for a supplemental source.

I couldn't 100% tell from the pictures but does anybody know if it has "feet" or a flat bottom? Right now my fireplace hearth is a stone veneer so it's not completely flat. I'm not sure if I'd want to try and make a pad for it to sit on or completely demo and rebuild the hearth with some more like slate.

And Dave, you are a great salesman, any guy that endorses an American made product by saying he enjoys going to work over day will win my sale any day over someone who knows all the "sales tricks." I recently bought a John Deere 2320 compact utility tractor for work around my home and the biggest sway to what dealer I chose to work with was the one where when I wanted to get a price quote the guy had to get out from under a tractor, wash the grease off his hands, and then help me get the deal I wanted. My kind of business transactions.

My hearth model (several years old) has a flat bottom and I had a slight rocking issue on my stone hearth. I put small little squares of aluminum about an eighth inch thick under each corner of the stove until I got it not to rock. I didn't use steel because I figure in the off season they may rust and stain the stone hearth in the event I remove the stove someday. I did use some coal from centrailia coal company which was good burning coal, but dry and dusty. It came in what looked like a wheat sack. I store my coal in the garage in bags and put a bag in a 5 gallon pail to bring into the basement and put it in the stove. With the dusty coal I would fill the bucket with coal in the garage and wet it down with a water bottle full of water so when I pour it in the stove hopper it would not make dust. I know someone people would go crazy about intentionally wetting coal but I naver had a problem burning wet coal at all. The stove itself does not make any appreciable dust; it just makes dust when you pour in dusty coal. When I got my stove I asked for an extra ash pan which is handy to have a cool ash pan ready to drop in after I remove the hot one and put it outside.

I do have my main house temp on about 65 and the coal keeps it around 70-72. I can go all winter without the heat running.

I have a round steel rod about 3 feet long bent into an "L" shape I use to spread the ashes around in the ash pan so it fills a little more evenly. If burning low I can empty the pan every 2 days and just spread the ashes around so the pan fills evenly.

Another note; the unit does have multiple fans on it and when cranking out a lot of head they are not what I would call noisy but they are there nonetheless. I have a finished upstairs I was going to try my stove in the living room but never moved it up there. I heat the basement and I get a warm (very warm) basement and a 70-72 upstairs. I do metal working stuff in the basement so I wanted some heat for my 60 degree basement, and I can walk around the house in short pants and t shirt all winter. I leave the sellar door open the the airflow up and down the stairs is amazing. Hot air rising and massive flow of cold air going down the stairs. Stairway is my air return. Plus, floors are very warm.

What room would you be putting the hearth in?

Thanks again for the great response. My desire it to put the unit upstairs (raised ranch) in my main great room on the fireplace hearth that is there. That opens to a lot of the house including an open stairwell downstairs about 15 feet away from there. That would allow me to use the existing chimney in the fireplace and not have to do any other chimneys or use a power vent. The trade off for my wife will also having the "view" of an open fire in our great room as opposed to it being downstairs. I get bulk coal and I'm trying to plan ways to make a bin that I can easily get a bucket of coal at a time to bring upstairs for the stove.

The more I talk to you the more I wish I could convince the wife to let me buy it for this winter!! I doubt it though....we're expecting our first child in the next couple of weeks and I don't think she's too keen on me dropping that kind of $$ on a stove right now. Although I do need to feed my coal addiction. I gotta see if I can convince her to let me credit it or something and have it for the winter

rocketjeremy wrote:Thanks again for the great response. My desire it to put the unit upstairs (raised ranch) in my main great room on the fireplace hearth that is there. That opens to a lot of the house including an open stairwell downstairs about 15 feet away from there. That would allow me to use the existing chimney in the fireplace and not have to do any other chimneys or use a power vent. The trade off for my wife will also having the "view" of an open fire in our great room as opposed to it being downstairs. I get bulk coal and I'm trying to plan ways to make a bin that I can easily get a bucket of coal at a time to bring upstairs for the stove.

The more I talk to you the more I wish I could convince the wife to let me buy it for this winter!! I doubt it though....we're expecting our first child in the next couple of weeks and I don't think she's too keen on me dropping that kind of $$ on a stove right now. Although I do need to feed my coal addiction. I gotta see if I can convince her to let me credit it or something and have it for the winter

Tell her you want to buy a motorcycle , then when you tell her you bought a stove instead it won't seem so bad to her ...

Yea I think it would work real well against the endwall of a RR because you are opened up to a living room/dining room as well as the hall leading to the BR's. The more open the better I think it will work. The heat will ultimately end up at the ceiling and the stove will purge the cold air off the floor. I was amazed how the air circulated in the house when driven by about 60000 BTU's of heat continuously. Our 8 month old (and mom) will appreciate the heat this winter. I have a ranch with a few additions that gets very cold without a lot of heat. It was built in the 50's and the walls are only like half insulated. First year I burned 6 tons of coal; after I changed some windows I am down to 5 tons a year. I really don't use the baseboard heat at all. I think I would burn even less if I had the stove upstairs. I am probably heating the entire foundation of the house as well as the basement walls, ceilings, and finally the upstairs living space. Good luck with it I hope the wife lets you buy one. If she likes to be warm like most women she will love it.

Mine has been installed on the end wall of our ranch (not raised) for 3 years now. Warms the main living area perfectly, but the heat doesn't really make it to the bedrooms so they're perpetually chilly (which I prefer, but my spouse and daughters do not). I'm pleased with the unit as I bought it for around $1500 when new and it's saved me more than twice that so far. It has some idiosyncrasies that had I known about, I may have opted for an Alaska hearth model, but overall, I'm pleased.

av8r wrote:Mine has been installed on the end wall of our ranch (not raised) for 3 years now. Warms the main living area perfectly, but the heat doesn't really make it to the bedrooms so they're perpetually chilly (which I prefer, but my spouse and daughters do not). I'm pleased with the unit as I bought it for around $1500 when new and it's saved me more than twice that so far. It has some idiosyncrasies that had I known about, I may have opted for an Alaska hearth model, but overall, I'm pleased.

The fan you have is 212 CFM The one on the Alaska is around 100 CFM . The Hearth running the same 100 CFM probably will not be louder . This is the first complaints I have really seen on this issue . Dave

Flyer5 wrote:

av8r wrote:Mine has been installed on the end wall of our ranch (not raised) for 3 years now. Warms the main living area perfectly, but the heat doesn't really make it to the bedrooms so they're perpetually chilly (which I prefer, but my spouse and daughters do not). I'm pleased with the unit as I bought it for around $1500 when new and it's saved me more than twice that so far. It has some idiosyncrasies that had I known about, I may have opted for an Alaska hearth model, but overall, I'm pleased.

The fan you have is 212 CFM The one on the Alaska is around 100 CFM . The Hearth running the same 100 CFM probably will not be louder . This is the first complaints I have really seen on this issue . Dave

Huh?

av8r wrote:

Flyer5 wrote: The fan you have is 212 CFM The one on the Alaska is around 100 CFM . The Hearth running the same 100 CFM probably will not be louder . This is the first complaints I have really seen on this issue . Dave

Huh?

Just stating that if you compare apples to apples the 212 fan puts out a lot more air than the hopper or hopper lid fan and if you don't run the fan on high it should not be as loud .I am not not knocking Alaska but don't they use the same fan as the econo in the hopper lid on their hearth model . It is rated at 120/130 CFM actually .So if you limit the 212 blower to the 130 cfm it is very quiet and usually when on the coal-trol it is turning slow and quiet. I will have to do some tests and see . If this is an issue I will look into what we can do in the future .What oil have you tried for lubing the motor ? Dave

Flyer5 wrote:
The fan you have is 212 CFM The one on the Alaska is around 100 CFM . The Hearth running the same 100 CFM probably will not be louder . This is the first complaints I have really seen on this issue . Dave

Huh?[/quote]

Just stating that if you compare apples to apples the 212 fan puts out a lot more air than the hopper or hopper lid fan and if you don't run the fan on high it should not be as loud .I am not not knocking Alaska but don't they use the same fan as the econo in the hopper lid on their hearth model . It is rated at 120/130 CFM actually .So if you limit the 212 blower to the 130 cfm it is very quiet and usually when on the coal-trol it is turning slow and quiet. I will have to do some tests and see . If this is an issue I will look into what we can do in the future .What oil have you tried for lubing the motor ? Dave[/quote]

ok..I think you're replying to my other thread regarding the sound of the blower. There aren't any lubrication holes that I could find so I used some machine oil and a long tube to place a few drops at each of the bearing/bushings then ran the motor to warm the oil and allow it to run into these areas. I then cleaned the small excess off the shafts with a q tip dipped in alcohol to keep the oil from attracting dust. The lube isn't the issue...it's a combination of the speed of the blower with the way it's attached to the stove body. Anything over 42-45 on the CoalTrol fan speed and the fans create a high pitched whine. On cold days the fan will run 60-100 and the sound is so loud you can't watch TV in the same room so I have to walk to the stat and lower the fan speed to something under 50. When we wake up on a cold morning you can hear the fan from our bedroom. I talked to Jerry a few times about this and he just kept telling me that fans make noise. I've experimented with a few things and it seems a plenum that can be attached to the back of the stove where the motor/fans would attach could be a great solution for this. You could use a free standing fan with a length of flex duct which would isolate the vibration and the sound very well.

Thanks for showing interest in this issue. I can shoot some video with a db meter to show you what it sounds like.

Here's my post from the other thread...

On my Hearth model (circa 2007), LL used a convection blower that has 2 fans riding a common shaft with a center mounted motor...direct drive. Because these fans are so small, they must be spun at high RPM to get the airflow necessary to work effectively. This causes the sound output at anything above 50% to be significant and obtrusive if the stove is in your main living space. Would you consider building an interface that would allow me to use a blower that has a significantly larger and slower spinning fan thus eliminating 3 problems:

1) Annual servicing of the convection fan is impossible without disassembling the stove and removing it from the hearth to gain access to the motor and fans for cleaning and lubrication.

2) The noise...it's freaking loud...a high pitched howl...

3) Vibration of the fans and motor being amplified by the big, steel box thus making the noise issue even worse.

A simple sheet metal plenum which allows a 4" or 6" flex-duct to be attached to it would allow us to use a free standing motor/fan assembly and make this thing virtually silent...like my friend's Alaska stoves.