Keystoker

Dave Brode,

Sound advice. I'm planning a free standing wooden bin but painting the block first is smart. So.... what kind of paint? The basement is DRY. But would dry lock be the the most obvious choice? I could always paint that corner before I build the free standing wooden bin to prevent any possible future issue.

Thanks,

Steve

With the bin "Right There" have you considered using an auger option to fill the appliance from the bin?

If yes - there will be parameters for location.

and I am missing why you simply cannot tie to that wonderful outside wall and save two of the four walls your considering

others have run safety cables too to keep the walls from bowing out, and a floor would lift the coal a little higher so it will fall out to your bucket or flow to your pick up auger.

If you are building a coal bin out of block, you should use "Dura Wall" masonry reinforcing grids in all the horizontal mortar joints. If you really want to go overboard you could use blocks make for making columns (large hollow rectangular opening) with vertical re-bar and concrete or mortar fill. Using both and at least one corner on each wall you will not need any reinforcing cables.

Yanche wrote:If you are building a coal bin out of block, you should use "Dura Wall" masonry reinforcing grids in all the horizontal mortar joints. If you really want to go overboard you could use blocks make for making columns (large hollow rectangular opening) with vertical re-bar and concrete or mortar fill. Using both and at least one corner on each wall you will not need any reinforcing cables.

I thought of masonary bin but too much trouble. The existing basement has the dura-wall and poured cores like you suggest. With radiant tubing in the floor I feel the best option is a bin of wood with four walls. Yes I could save money if I anchored to the existing masonary and utilized it for two of the walls. I also have thought about elevating the bin just over the height of a 5 gallon pail or coal scuttle. Also the idea of an auger into the coal hopper just makes sense. I first need to get the boiler running then I'll work on the bin. No idea will ignored- trust me.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve,

The block and mortar joints in my coal bin [coal room, really] had suffered some slight acid damage from wet coal over 20 years. I coated the lower part of the bin [which showed most damage] with Drylok oil base water proofing paint [$20 per gallon at Lowe's - a gallon goes a long way]. They also make water based, but I chose the oil based. I also see some evidence of water seeping up into the 1st row of block and mortar joints from under the floor in a few spots in my basement, so I felt that the water proofing paint was a good idea. I also used that on the 1st row of block in my boiler room, and where I am painting elsewhere in the basement.

I used two coats of normal latex block filler everywhere, even over the drylok [$50 for 5 gallon, or $11 a gallon at Lowe's]. I top coated everything with two coats of water based Valspar two part wall epoxy [$39 a gallon]. I would have used oil based two part epoxy, but the smell from it is really bad, so I used the water based. I am fairly happy with the two part epoxy, btw. With two coats of the block filler, the wall epoxy goes pretty far.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_262605-4-007.0262605.022_ ... tt=valspar wall epoxy&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=valspar wall epoxy

The coal tar epoxy paint that europachris linked really interested me;

http://www.grainger.com/product/3XH23?Pid=search

If I had learned of it prior to starting, I might have used that as a base coat. However, I had already started painting, so I kept going with what I had.

If I was painting wood, I would use an oil based primer, and either oil or water based two part epoxy top coat. I have used Kilz oil based primer on wood with good results.

http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?storeId ... e&Ntt=kilz

Dave

On block construction;

You can make a bond-beam type block yourself. After a row of block is laid [and mortar is dry], make two slices in the top of that row with a saw blade. Make the cuts at least 2-3" apart and 2" or so deep. Tap between the cuts and the piece will break out. Place re-bar in the slice, and when you pour the wall full, it'll be damned strong. [diamond blades for normal circular saws don't cost much].

You can also pre-slice outside to prevent dust in the house, but you'll have to be careful with the block, as they'll be more apt to crack.

Dave

Btw, if you know that your heat tubing is low in the floor, or at least in the middle, imo, you could cut a 1/2" to 3/4" deep slot in the floor, and use block for the bin. The slot would [should] hold the wall in place. Imo, 3 or 4 saw cuts in the floor, 2-3 inches wide total would not be too hard to chip out to form a slot.

I would use horizontal re-bar in ever 3rd row, a few bar running vertically [even pieced in would help imo], and pour the whole thing full.

Dave

Dirty Steve wrote:Also the idea of an auger into the coal hopper just makes sense. I first need to get the boiler running then I'll work on the bin. No idea will ignored- trust me.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve,

I am in the middle of my project. [Keystoker Kaa-2] As always, my project has expanded, and has become a "let's make the boiler and coal room pretty while we're at it" sort of a thing.

Anyway, I am installing a grain auger on a 30* or so angle into my coal bin. I hope to use a gasketed cover on the hopper, and a large flex hose from the auger discharge to a cover on the hopper for dust free hopper filling. I have the auger tube in place. I plan to use a speed reduction box of some sort to make for a slower auger speed. I will post pics when there is more to show.

Dave

Steve,

I would also move the piping on the wall. The staining in the corner tells me that you also have water under your floor at times [imo, a basement should have a full row of block under the floor, between the footer and bottom of floor, rather than pouring the floor right on the footer - hindsight]

I would also drywall [or plywood, etc] the bottom of the joists, and seal everything well on the ceiling. I would also consider an exterior door with a good threshold on the bin, which will help keep most of the dust in the bin when you fill it. There will be dust.

Dave

dave brode

All excellent ideas to incorporate into my set up. I'm meeting with the boiler man this weekend to discuss plumbing the boiler in with my oil burner. The bin is on hold until the coal boiler is put together. I still have to place a window well outside the window due to grade issues and it's too freakin hot to do much work outside right now. Dave, I look forward to any pictures you post showing your set up. I would just like to get up and running this year. I hope to build a bin in such a way that I could add an auger from the bin to the boiler hopper in the future.

Thanks

steve

Steve,

I'll post pics in a week or so.

Fwiw, instead of the window well, you could use a fabricated steel chute with lid. Any metal shop could make it. You could make cardboard templates. Fasten to block, or use steel angles around the openings on both sides to hold it [round headed bolts would work well]. Coat with undercoating or foundation coating and mild steel would last for a long time. You could seal it to the opening, back fill with clean stone, with a little something on top [topsoil, etc.]

My chute is made from 1/8" carbon steel [even 16ga would be fine imo], painted with foundation coating. Still good shape after 20. Put a flower box on top and it would not look too bad.

Dave

So I met with my boiler man this past weekend and he gave a me a list of fittings and pipe and pump to buy. Then he told me to first get the boiler on it's side and paint the bottom. He has a KE 15 or KF-18 (has the 12 inch exhaust) and said the bottom does not come painted. Well- I found this to be a daunting task. After he left I got a mirror and sure enough- no paint on the bottom. So with the help of a block and tackle and my brother I got it over and sprayed with 1200 deg paint. Probably overkill but that's what my install guy suggested. I put two coats on and will wait the 48 hours reccommend before another coat if it's needed. It's Rust o leum- hope thats good paint? I need to get some metal shims ready to level the boiler now. One corner will be close to floor drain and I anticipate up to a 1/4 inch of shims will be needed. Any other tricks to anticipate while installing one of these Keystokers?

Steve

Steve,

If the 6 is like the KAA2, the jacket will hang loose, so any shims will need to be large enough to support it too. Most guys use bricks, afaik.

Being an anal tin-banger, I don't like the idea of painted tin jacket bearing on something, so I supported my jacketing. I fashioned little brackets to hold the flue end of the jacketing that are hidden under the jacketing. On the hopper side, I used threaded rod with fender washers on both side of the tin there. A nut between the outer fender washer and the hopper secure the tin there, and wing nuts and more fender washers hold the hopper. This holds the hopper about 1/2" away from the jacket.

I built a steel stand to go under the boiler with threaded adjustments for hiegth. It has a tray, in which I placed radiant barrier insulation. There is an air gap everywhere except for a spot at each corner. I figure that an air gap and the radiant insulation should help the bottom stay hotter to keep moisture/rust at bay. [I should have painted mine too, but I did not]

Btw, I don't know if it's normal procedure, but I did not recieve any insulation for the top of the boiler. I'll use some from my stash.

Dave
p.s. - I'm still working on my coal bin and bin to hopper auger. I'll get back to the boiler install after that. A local coal guy here made me a good deal [$150 per ton] on 4-5 ton of rice leftover from last season. I've put him of for 3 weeks already.