Sounded Easy at First

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tsb
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Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed. Jul. 30, 2008 8:38 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II
Baseburners & Antiques: Grander Golden Oak , Glenwood # 6
Coal Size/Type: All of them
Location: Douglassville, Pa

Post Mon. May. 24, 2010 8:56 pm

Yanche,

The boiler surface square footage was calculated for 90,000 BTU. This way over the BTUs that
I require to heat three bathrooms. As stated, extra heat will be dumped into the basement and
the DHW coil. So far I have over fired the boiler just on idle. During testing I didn't leave the
dump zone active over night and ended up with a basement full of steam in the morning. The
low setting on the feeder is 30 seconds on / 5 minutes off. Even then the dump zone kicks in.
With a cold weather load, it will be easier to dial in the setting needed. During tests, the stack
outside temperature never got above 120.
The circulators are Taco. 007 with one inch lines in and out.


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wsherrick
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Joined: Wed. Jun. 18, 2008 6:04 am
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size
Location: High In The Poconos

Post Mon. May. 24, 2010 10:17 pm

That's pretty amazing work. I'm very impressed at your ability.

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Yanche
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Location: Sykesville, Maryland

Post Mon. May. 24, 2010 10:21 pm

I'll illustrate what can be used to measure operating BTU rather than surface area calculated. I'll use a Taco 007 with internal flow check, the circulator I have on my boiler. A Taco 007 without the flow check will give slightly more flow. The graph below is simply the manufactures' pump curve with the vertical axis re-calculated to indicate pump differential pressure instead of pump head. I've assumed a water temperature of 180 deg. F flowing through the pump.
Taco_007_IFC_wPSI.jpg
To determine the flow one would measure the inlet and outlet pump pressures with a differential fluid pressure gauge. This will give you the operating point on the curve. Then simply read the flow rate. To calculate the BTU delivered you need to measure the boiler supply and return temperatures. Then just use the heat flow equation I've previously posted.
The pressure gauge I have is a Dwyer Photohelic model 3203, full scale is 3 psi. It's much better gauge than is needed but it was an inexpensive purchase on Ebay. There are other gauges that can be used but they must be differential, you just don't get enough resolution to use atmospheric referenced gauges.

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tsb
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Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed. Jul. 30, 2008 8:38 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II
Baseburners & Antiques: Grander Golden Oak , Glenwood # 6
Coal Size/Type: All of them
Location: Douglassville, Pa

Post Tue. May. 25, 2010 6:23 am

Yanche,

Next winter, when it's fired up, I'll do the calculations. I know
the guy that helped with the design has the proper gauges and
math experience.

Thanks

Tom

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tsb
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Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed. Jul. 30, 2008 8:38 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II
Baseburners & Antiques: Grander Golden Oak , Glenwood # 6
Coal Size/Type: All of them
Location: Douglassville, Pa

Post Wed. May. 26, 2010 10:24 pm

The last part of this project was the pex tubing. I assumed that it
would be the easiest part of the job. Little did I know that pex tubing
that has been in a 54 degree basement for a week is like wrestling an
alligator. It is almost impossible to straighten and has a memory. With
two people it would be a fight, but by myself it was a massacre. I finally had
to drag the whole roll out into the yard, tie one end, and stretch it across the
lawn and let it warm up for and hour. Even then it was a battle.
My access to the upstairs was a tight area as shown in the picture.
Cluster Shag.JPG
Each run of supply and return got a little tighter and harder to pull.
By the end of the day I was wasted. Thank God for sharkbite fittings
they were the only bright spot of the day.
During leak testing, I was up and down the two full flights of stairs at least
50 times. Bleed, check for leaks, bleed, check for leaks, it seemed to go on
forever. One leak in the baseboard took about 2 hours to get right.
Wiring the thermostats is the last part of the project. That will be done this
weekend. I'll fire it up again no matter what the weather. It'll be a dry heat.
When I get time I'll try to make a list of things I've learned and things to avoid.
Next up. A coal run in June.

Tom

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europachris
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Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner
Location: N. Central Illinois

Post Wed. May. 26, 2010 10:36 pm

I think I'll patiently wait for that list before I start the actual installation process on mine...... :-) Just because I'm an engineer means nothing - experience trumps engineer almost every time.

Can't wait to hear how it fires up for you!

Chris

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oliver power
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Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Location: Near Dansville, NY

Post Sat. Jul. 03, 2010 10:45 am

All I can say is; "I'M IMPRESSED"!!!! VERY NICE!!!

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tsb
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Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed. Jul. 30, 2008 8:38 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II
Baseburners & Antiques: Grander Golden Oak , Glenwood # 6
Coal Size/Type: All of them
Location: Douglassville, Pa

Post Sat. Jul. 03, 2010 1:44 pm

Thanks for the complements. I did get to fire it up for
a couple of days before the weather turned hot. I think
it's going to generate a lot more heat than I expected.
Probably going to expand the heating area to include more
of the living area. That will mean little work for the hand fired
unit in the kitchen. I'll save that for power out situations. I also
need to install a circulator for domestic hot water. I'm looking for
a low volume pump that will do the job.


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nortcan
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Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride
Location: Qc Canada

Post Sat. Jul. 03, 2010 6:06 pm

Very nice realization. Need a lot of courage and detemination to do what you did. You realized what a lot are dreaming of!
All my congratulations
Nortcan

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Flyer5
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer
Location: Montrose PA
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Post Mon. Jul. 19, 2010 10:02 am

Very nice work ! I can appreciate how much is involved . I ran 3000' of pex tubing in my house a few yrs ago best to get the basement up to about 80 degrees some how it will flex much easier . Cant wait to see the reports .The feeder looks familiar :D . Good luck ,Dave

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tsb
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Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed. Jul. 30, 2008 8:38 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II
Baseburners & Antiques: Grander Golden Oak , Glenwood # 6
Coal Size/Type: All of them
Location: Douglassville, Pa

Post Mon. Jul. 19, 2010 11:41 am

Dave,

The grate is yours. I didn't want to con you for
the whole feeder. I know the liability issues. The stove
end has to be identical to yours, just to make the grate fit.
The back end is a little different because of the feeder motor.
I played with the carpet a little too. Time will tell how that
works out. If you had the boiler on the market last winter, it
would have saved me a lot of time. But it's hard to time things.
Good luck with your design. I might need one in the long run.

Tom

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CoalHeat
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Joined: Sat. Feb. 10, 2007 9:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Fri. Jan. 07, 2011 8:51 pm

Update??? :?:

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tsb
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Posts: 1809
Joined: Wed. Jul. 30, 2008 8:38 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II
Baseburners & Antiques: Grander Golden Oak , Glenwood # 6
Coal Size/Type: All of them
Location: Douglassville, Pa

Post Fri. Jan. 07, 2011 9:48 pm

Well, I fired up the boiler full time in mid September. I added
a circulator for the DHW and turned off the propane. I have hot water
out the bazooo.
I also had plenty of excess capacity so I added a 5000 BTU kick space heater
in the main living area, and a three loop boot dryer/warmer by the front door.
I still run the LL Pioneer, but it just loafs along burning about a scuttle a day.
The boiler does most of the work and the basement stays about 60 degrees.
The hand fed unit in the kitchen has not been fired all winter.
So, things I've learned.
Shark bite fittings are very useful.
The new enviro solder and flux sucks. ( had a leak after 6 months )
Operating below 180 degrees is pretty useless.
DHW coils are the best invention ever.
Buy more coal than last year. ( never dawned on me that I was burning rice in both stoves now )
I've gone through about 2.5 tons so far, and I'll need another load by early February.
Read this forum every day and look at pictures of other installations.
If you think you have too many valves, you don't.
If you think you've done a neat job, you haven't. Look at Murdoc's setup.
I hope to run year round with the DHW. It'll help keep the damp out of the basement.
Wood'nCoal thanks for asking.

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CoalHeat
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Posts: 8331
Joined: Sat. Feb. 10, 2007 9:48 pm
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert
Location: Stillwater, New Jersey

Post Fri. Jan. 07, 2011 10:02 pm

I was wondering because you hadn't posted an update. Good to hear the boiler is working well for you.
If you think you have too many valves, you don't.
So true!

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europachris
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Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner
Location: N. Central Illinois

Post Sat. Jan. 08, 2011 9:19 am

tsb wrote: The new enviro solder and flux sucks. ( had a leak after 6 months )
Yes, it does suck! I thought I'd be able to find regular 50/50 solid core solder somewhere, but I couldn't, caved, and bought the lead-free stuff. I will say that the latest solder I bought isn't TOO bad - it says it works as easy as the "old school" solder, which it doesn't, but it is a metric butt-load better than the original unleaded stuff. I ran out of the solder I bought with about 4 fittings to go so I grabbed a little spool I've had for at least 10 years. OMG, I about melted the copper in half! This older solder has a melting range that seems to be about 2 degrees. Too cold - it won't flow, too hot - it won't flow. You have to get it JUST right. On 1" copper it's not too bad, but on 1/2" you might as well just set yourself on fire.

I said "fck this" and grabbed my spool of 60/40 rosin core electronic solder and finished the job (still using the plumbing flux as usual). WOW, what a difference!!! I've never sweat copper with "leaded" solder, but now I'm REALLY wishing I'd found (or ordered) some 50/50 solder. Good GOD, it practically solders itself! Get the joint in a general range of hot, all clean and fluxed, and the solder almost unrolls itself and jumps into the joint. If you don't watch it, the solder will try to tin the entire length of pipe and do the next joint for you! And to top it off, you've got plenty of time to get a wet rag and polish off the joint for a shiny, slick appearance.

Word to the wise - do yourself a huge favor and go buy some real solder for sweating together hydronic system copper. The "big box" stores don't sell it as far as I can tell. McMaster-Carr is your friend - order some Kester 50/50 and be done with it.


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