Economics of Coal Delivery

What zone do you live in? SEE MAP BELOW

Anthracite Zone itself
11
13%
Zone 0, just outside the Coal Zone
15
18%
Zone 1
11
13%
Zone 2
17
20%
Zone 3
17
20%
Zone 4
6
7%
Beyond Zone 4
6
7%
 
Total votes: 83

 
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Ashcat
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Post by Ashcat » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 12:54 pm

There must be something I don’t understand about the economics of coal delivery. Help me understand what I’m missing. I believe there is at least one forum member who has been involved in coal delivery in the past.

It would seem that this forum would represent a good source of potential customers for an enterprising regional trucker to deliver relatively small quantities of coal to forum members. I suspect that the majority of forum members live within the four zones described in the poll above, making these regions accessible to a short-haul/regional trucker who knows and lives in the Anthracite Zone. For example, I would really like to burn Superior Coal, based upon all the good things I hear about it here. But in order to do so, I first need to know the location of their breaker/bulk retail outlet, since there are no resellers known to me locally. Coal Berner has provided locations and phone numbers for this purpose, but it is not as simple as that. If I wanted to purchase bulk Superior coal, or bagged coal in any amount more than 600 or 700 pounds, I would need a rental truck, a commercial driver, or both. Then, I would have to get the coal from the truck to the storage area. Due to the hassles of doing all of the above, I would be willing to pay extra per ton to have, in this example, superior coal shipped to me. In my case, I would be looking at 6 tons, and $100 extra per ton, beyond the rate paid at the breaker, would seem reasonable to me. I live just into Zone 1, approximately 2 hours from anthracite country. This would equate to $600 of revenue to the driver for about five hours worth of work (two hours driving each way, plus one hour to deliver, which seems generous), to cover the cost of fuel and maintenance, etc. of the truck. If it cost the driver $200 in fuel and other costs, that leaves $400 profit from five hours worth of work and no overnights—not bad at all. The driver could set the delivery charge based upon what circle the custom lived in. For example, a Zone 4 delivery might be a minimum of $600 or $200 per ton, whichever is greater .

I suspect that I am either underestimating the costs of operating a truck to deliver these quantities, overestimating the amount people would be willing to pay extra for such deliveries, or both.

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Delivery Circles.JPG
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Last edited by Ashcat on Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 1:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.


 
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Ashcat
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Post by Ashcat » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 12:59 pm

Here's the map:

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 1:43 pm

Interesting idea, I also don't know the financials of truck deliveries, I am sure someone here does, though. For comparison, I am able to get coal locally delivered for $200 per ton + $25 or $30 (i can't remember) flat delivery charge no matter what the tonnage. I don't know which breaker it comes from but it has always burned well. If it would work out to be a better price I would be willing to get a large delivery 10-20 tons, whatever the truckload split worked out to be with others in this area. Easy delivery here, too, just back it up into the old garage (door is large enough for a dump truck to enter) & dump it! I would also be willing to provide a crab cake sandwich for the ride home if it helps as incentive! :D

 
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Post by Richard S. » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 1:50 pm

Ashcat wrote: in this example, superior coal shipped to me. In my case, I would be looking at 6 tons, and $100 extra per ton, beyond the rate paid at the breaker, would seem reasonable to me..
The issue is the day is shot, you can only get two deliveries out and then you're getting home really late. The problem with long haul with a small truck is you don't have the volume. e.g I used to be able to make 4 deliveries in one day if they were all full loads to Tunkhannock and everything went well. There's a sweet spot where you're making good money because it's farther away and can charge more but still close enough so you can get a lot of coal out. Once you get past more than hour you're not going anywhere...

 
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Post by JB Sparks » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 2:05 pm

Well, I was thinking if I had a diesel pick-up and a high lift dump trailor I could haul about 5 tons at a whack. then add on truck expence and labor and make runs back and forth to zone three. It would seam that I could do it for less than we are all paying now, which is about $400 a ton with mass tax and delivery charges included.

What am I missing?

JB

 
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Post by Ashcat » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 2:29 pm

Richard S wrote:The issue is the day is shot, you can only get two deliveries out and then you're getting home really late. ..
Interesting, thanks for the real-world feedback, Richard. But even with one delivery per day, the example I provided (which may or may not be realistic) provides a $100,000 salary with five 5 hour days per week, plus 2 weeks vacation per year. (I suppose :D you can't count on delivering every day throughout the summer, though) Not bad at all, but maybe unrealistic.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 2:37 pm

JB Sparks wrote:Well, I was thinking if I had a diesel pick-up and a high lift dump trailor I could haul about 5 tons at a whack.
That's a lot of work unless you're just dumping it on the ground. One thing that comes with a delivery service and most people expect is that you put it where they want it within reason. Unless you have a high lift truck you can't do that. You're one hour of work is going to be a lot longer that that if for example they want it inside a box, in the basement, over the fence, into the window under the porch..... ;)

This is 5 ton lift, you need a 25,000 GVW truck to legally run it. The other issue is the lift itself weighs considerably more than a standard dump. you can't haul as much.

If you could get 300 customers that wanted it dumped on the ground you could certainly make a mint but that's not going to happen. The other issues include as you mentioned summer deliveries, everyone wants it late summer and fall.. Its feast or famine.

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JB Sparks
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Post by JB Sparks » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 2:47 pm

Good point Richard, That would have to be worked out before I ever left my driveway!! One couldn't be to fussy if their looking for price. I'm thinking if I got to their driveway that would be close enough then it becomes their issue to deal with.

 
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Post by djackman » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 4:30 pm

Ashcat wrote:I suspect that I am either underestimating the costs of operating a truck to deliver these quantities
$200/day sounds a little low to run a commercial truck. One good stop at a DOT checkpoint, or a breakdown, would easily wipe that or a week's income out. The local masonary and/or landscaping yards he will charge a min of $50 for local delivery - doesn't matter if it's a pickup truck of holly bushes or a 10-wheeler of boulders.

I'm on Long Island, Zone 2. The time of getting on and off could easily push it up a zone or three.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 4:32 pm

Ahhh but then someone like me comes in and says I'll do all the work for another $100. Moving 5 or 6 tons by hand is not a picnic. There's guys that still shovel off the truck by hand into the basement, box or whatever. They're nuts but they do it.

Having said that buy my trucks and you're in business.

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 4:39 pm

djackman wrote: $200/day sounds a little low to run a commercial truck. One good stop at a DOT checkpoint, or a breakdown, would easily wipe that or a week's income out..
Yes, tires alone are $200 or $300 a pop (probably much more now), registration is about $600 on 31GVW truck , insurance is $$$.... Something breaks its always $$$$$$... Tow Job? :what: Stuck in the mud, DOT pulling you over screwing your schedule up AND hope they don't find something wrong because the truck will sit there until you fix it or it gets towed. I think it's like $80 per light for smaller things they might let you leave with it. :mad: Don't forget that fuel tax stamp. Oil change? 16 quarts on the Mercedes above.

$$$$$$ No one really realizes the expense until they do it. How would you like to get the bill for new tires on a 18 Wheeler or triaxle.

 
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Post by tsb » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 5:35 pm

When I pick up coal at Meadowbrook, there is always at least one triAxle owner-operator there getting coal for somebody. I've asked them how they unload. Dump it in a BIG pile, get paid and go. The fellow I spoke with was from Shippensburg. He hauls on days that are slow or too wet for construction hauling. He and the wife make a morning of it. They get breakfast, hauls some coal, make a couple of bucks. Better than sitting home making nothing. Find somebody like this and you got coal.

TSB

 
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Post by BIG BEAM » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 7:36 pm

I have a local guy that picks coal up for me.I live 4 hrs away from coal country.He picks up 5 or 6 tons at a time(sometimes he tows a trailer)It ends up costing me about 275.00-300.00 per ton.That's bagged,a little less if it's a dump and run.So thats 800.00 for coal 40-50 gals for fuel,8 hr. drive and 5 hrs to bag.I don't think he's making a killing because he does this on the side.With all the time he puts in and other related costs he's doing OK but that's it.I don't save any money but I can get any coal I want.

I think if you can find a guy that owns a landscaping co. and ask them if they will make a run for you in his "off season" winter you will make out OK.
DON

 
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Post by Ashcat » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 8:31 pm

Very interesting. Thanks. Richard, I checked out your vehicles for sale--at ~10 mpg of diesel, with diesel recently going for ~$5 per gallon, and with tires/repairs/fees being what they are, makes more sense to me why this isn't being done.

I'm keeping my eyes peeled for construction/other truckers in my area who might be willing to hire out on their normal off-peak times.

 
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Post by Ross » Thu. Dec. 04, 2008 8:45 pm

I paid $280 per ton and it was delivered to the large holding box at the back of my garage, I bought 2 tons. He was able to pour through a window but there was considerable effort for him to shovel it over to make room too. At what price would I be willing to buy coal for someone to drop it in my driveway instead? I think you have to get the price WAY down to make it worth my while. I'm guessing that shoveling two tons of coal even a few feet sucks. Unless I was having problem with quality or the price went way up I don't think it would be worth my while.


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