The death of Homer City powerplant was too slow

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 19, 2024 11:18 pm

54 years is too old for an electric powerplant...Especially one losing money...

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56700

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_City_Generating_Station

https://www.fastcompany.com/91031223/private-equi ... ts-workers

"Ironically, Homer City’s owners blamed regulations for the plant’s death. But many argue it was coal’s dwindling value compared to renewables that rendered Homer City uneconomical. A solar facility is sitting in PJM’s interconnection queue, ready to take up the plant’s valuable connection to the grid. "

"With all of Pennsylvania’s coal-fired power plants in the process of decommissioning, Wamsted fears a similar future for a new wave of natural gas plants being kept alive on PJM’s capacity market, brought online by high capacity prices of the 2010s that have since halved. In June 2022, Wamsted called these capacity payments a “losing bet” for gas plants. In December of the following year, he called Homer City a “harbinger” for future plant closures. (Two other coal-fired plants, both less than 20 miles away in Indiana County, are slated to be decommissioned by 2028. The county has four years to prepare.)"

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Post by BrokenGrate » Tue. Feb. 20, 2024 5:02 am

It is such a shame we are losing these plants.

I am in the renewable power industry on the generating side, and we all know the fallacy and real reason behind the push for solar. It is such horrific power generation and yet the country plows headlong towards their own demise.

Spinning reserve, reactive and lag power, black start capability, frequency; the garbage power that solar is destabalizing the whole grid and yet because it is so complex, few can see what is truly going on.

I hope everyone likes nuclear power because it is coming. It has too.

 
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Post by anthony7812 » Tue. Feb. 20, 2024 6:11 pm

You can’t argue with those not willing to understand electrical energy principles. Sure solar and wind should be in the mix. It just isn’t stable, reliable and easily generated at any moment.

88 wind turbines near me with 2mW generation per turbine. This spans thousands of acres. That’s 176mW if she’s full tilt…what a waste. Not mention seeing only half spin at any time says a lot.

A 250megawatt rolls Royce turbine plant(natural gas) fits on an acre to 2 acres. I’ll say 4 acres with a parking lot haha. Power it up and booom! Reliable , stable ,” clean” electrical power. Clean is in more ways then environmental. But hey what do I know. Just hit 20 years in the industrial power & controls field.

 
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Post by waytomany?s » Tue. Feb. 20, 2024 6:15 pm

anthony7812 wrote:
Tue. Feb. 20, 2024 6:11 pm


A 250megawatt rolls Royce turbine plant(natural gas) fits on an acre to 2 acres. I’ll say 4 acres with a parking lot haha. Power it up and booom! Reliable , stable ,” clean” electrical power. Clean is in more ways then environmental. But hey what do I know. Just hit 20 years in the industrial power & controls field.
So less than the greenies. :angel:

 
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Post by grumpy » Tue. Feb. 20, 2024 6:17 pm

Can ya hook me up with a 15kw turbine? Lol

 
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Post by BrokenGrate » Fri. Feb. 23, 2024 12:14 pm

Wind is not too bad as long as they are synchronous turbines. You get frequency, limited black start capability, spinning reserve and can combat reactive power situations with them, but not all have that ability.

I worked in a renewable energy boiler house and use to watch the power prices. If they spiked I would pour on the throttle and cram a bit more steam into the genny to get a few more megawatts out of the old dragon.

I am limited what I can do now but just spun up the turbines here and pushed two more megs out of the substation. Its a little more at least.

 
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Post by BigBarney » Fri. Feb. 23, 2024 12:36 pm

Power systems will always be a combination of sources... All have a place...

But make the most effective your backbone... With others the ribs...

Have peak prices and off peak to control the high peak..

Push optional demand all to off peak to not have so much excess at night...

Use the excess to fuel batteries in all applications...Buy excess at $0 cost...

Maybe even get paid to take the excess power as companies do now..

https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/virtual-powe ... a-electric

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Post by BrokenGrate » Fri. Feb. 23, 2024 12:57 pm

Just saw the report today that generation retirement is being scaled back in 2024. While 91 percent is coal and gas generators, it is only 5.2 gigiwstts this year compared to 13.5 gigawatts from last year.

Renewable power still is only 9 percent of the nations power production.

 
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Post by warminmn » Fri. Feb. 23, 2024 6:35 pm

I could list the reasons for my hatred of windmills but compared to solar power on farmland its more efficient in land use... its really hard for me to say that where I live looking at them as long as I live. Biggest eyesore there ever was. The only thing worse is looking at a transfer station for a windfarm, if thats that they are called. I think its 650 mw they are putting up around me very soon within a mile or closer. But Ive had hundreds within site of me for a decade.

NG should be used in my opinion, other than rooktop and yard, pasture solar. But I dont have any say in it other than bitching.

 
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Post by nut » Fri. Feb. 23, 2024 7:06 pm

I can understand your opinion of windmills being so close. NG in your back yard is no picnic either. Nor is anything like that. NIMBY is something we all can relate to.
https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/susquehan ... b3d7c235ff

 
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Post by warminmn » Fri. Feb. 23, 2024 8:24 pm

If theres a way for someone to make money they dont seem to care about anyone else nearby... I tried watching the video but it wouldnt load. But I could read what was there.

Im sure I will have windmills closer than a mile south of me, possible as close as 500 feet, and a good chance west of me within a mile, perhaps as close as 600 feet. Unsure how close north. I think rare bats saved me close by to the east but who knows. For me the worst part is not being to enjoy a sunset without seeing those things. Just a simple pleasure I know but its the worst part for me. Them killing the bald eagles that haunt a creek by me is a real close 2nd place as I enjoy them too. Green my ass is all I can say about windmills.

 
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Post by nut » Fri. Feb. 23, 2024 8:38 pm

Sorry to here that. I don't blame you for feeling like that. Put that stuff away from people no matter what . That's one of the things I did not like about the NG boom. The lease guys ran around here putting dollar signs in everyones head. All the land got leased but luckily the DRBC stopped drilling in the Delaware river watershed. Saved my back yard.

 
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Post by BrokenGrate » Sat. Feb. 24, 2024 4:30 am

The windmills by me are not that close, and I like to look out and see how fast they are turning and where the wind is coming from, but they are a long way out. And as is, I can only see 3 of them.

Solar is my hatred. I call them plastic farms. I grew up on a farm and here in Maine only 10% of the land base is fields, the rest is forest. But its a lot easier to plant solar farms in existing fields rather than clear forest so that is what they are doing.... everywhere. I feel bad for the local dairy farmer, his fields are being consumed at such a record rate that he must travel 52 miles from his farm to have enough acreage to feed his cows. Now he has to go even farther away because I see more are being built on his leased fields.

There are so many issues with them, from the things I stated about before, to even Forever Chemicals that they leach off, so they are hardly helping the situation.

I had the employee of one solar farm come to my house and ask if I wanted to sign up with his company as I could get 15% off my electric bill. I declined as I know what that scam is. As is, 50% of Maine's electric bill goes to subsidize solar farm construction.

 
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Post by waytomany?s » Sat. Feb. 24, 2024 6:51 am

warminmn wrote:
Fri. Feb. 23, 2024 8:24 pm
If theres a way for someone to make money they dont seem to care about anyone else nearby... I tried watching the video but it wouldnt load. But I could read what was there.

Im sure I will have windmills closer than a mile south of me, possible as close as 500 feet, and a good chance west of me within a mile, perhaps as close as 600 feet. Unsure how close north. I think rare bats saved me close by to the east but who knows. For me the worst part is not being to enjoy a sunset without seeing those things. Just a simple pleasure I know but its the worst part for me. Them killing the bald eagles that haunt a creek by me is a real close 2nd place as I enjoy them too. Green my ass is all I can say about windmills.
They shouldn't get that close, depending on their size. The setback requirements from roads and property lines should be further than that. Check with the town and see what the distance is and ask if it's being enforced.

 
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Post by warminmn » Sat. Feb. 24, 2024 9:25 am

waytomany?s wrote:
Sat. Feb. 24, 2024 6:51 am
They shouldn't get that close, depending on their size. The setback requirements from roads and property lines should be further than that. Check with the town and see what the distance is and ask if it's being enforced.
10% added to the height of windmills is the distance needed away from roads, powerlines, property lines. I think the ones they are installing are about 300 feet tall. There "might" be a 750 foot rule from homes. No consideration for flicker either. Ive got the only used home in my whole section but several landowners. Owner of farmland around my house just sold 300 acres to the solar farm for $4.5 million, $15k and acre. That person is an investor, lives out of state. 15K is a little above market value but not crazy above market. its prime farmland.

It really all depends on where they decide to build. its a 100 windmill farm. I expect them close especially south as they installed a wind monitor 1 mile south of me. Ive noticed farmers around me removing tree lines and fence rows this past fall, an indicator. everythings a secret with them until they show up. All they do is lie until then. Im hoping the rare bat here saves me but money talks.

Their putting up another farm a little further south. but really they will be everywhere here before they are done except the bluff areas.

I can understand your hatred of solar too Brokengrate. When they take a chunk of farmland away they are taking money away from the ones still farming. The solar farm going up by me not a single local farmer would rent to them. So they rented and bought from out of state land owners/investors. And local farmers lost out on the profit they made renting the land forever.


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