Antique Stove Efficiency

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scottf
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Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique

Post Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 3:59 pm

I just purchased this antique coal burning stove. It was completely restored by the dealer. I knew when I bought it that I would sacrafice performance for looks. That is ok to me because I love the old time craftsmenship and it is worth it. My question is how much less efficient will this old coal stove be compared to a modern one.
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Richard S.
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Post Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 4:03 pm

Depends on how well you can contol mostly. Does it have a damper before where the gases enter the flue?
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."

- Albert Einstein

scottf
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Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique

Post Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 4:21 pm

It does not have a damper built into the stove where the exhaust enters the flue. Just an open 6" hold for the flue pipe. However the dealer insists I install a manual pipe damper in the flue and gave me one to install. It has 2 air intakes below the burning chamber and just below the coal grates where the ash pan is and one air intake on top of the burning chamber.

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wsherrick
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
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Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size
Location: High In The Poconos

Post Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 4:40 pm

You have just made the SMARTEST stove buying choice that anyone could have made. That is a Geneva Oak!! Absolutely the top of the line! These stoves are highly efficient and easy to use and they are designed to be airtight. You have primary air control down at the ash pit and a large secondary air control in the door. I have used stoves like this with soft coal and let me tell you---they BELT out the heat! They are easily taken apart to maintain and the grates are standard round dump grates which are easily available.

Image

This is me from times gone by. This stove heated the bottom floor of an 1880's mansion which had 16 foot high ceilings and big drafty windows that were huge. This shot was taken in the back parlor of the double parlor. "Old Ethel," here held about 50 to 60 pounds of coal and kept that portion of the house toasty warm. When the temp was outside in the single digits, It was 80 degrees in the adjoining rooms here. One loading of coal would go about 10 hours on average, a little less during really cold snaps.

You have bought an excellent, excellent stove of superior design.
Last edited by wsherrick on Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Adamiscold
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Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School
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Post Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 4:46 pm

That's a really nice looking stove Scott.
Adam

http://www.homepower.com <-- Great magazine.

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wsherrick
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
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Post Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 5:27 pm

In my earlier post I should've answered your question more directly. This stove is among the most efficient stoves ever made, that is; if you learn to operate it properly. When I buy my own house I will have one of these someday.

CapeCoaler
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Post Thu. Aug. 21, 2008 6:18 pm

If you got it at Barnstable Stove Shop
http://www.barnstablestove.com/html/baseburners.htm
You should have received quite a bit of info on how efficient these bad boys are.
Do whatever he says.
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

scottf
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Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique

Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 10:58 am

Thank you Wsherrick, that is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks for the photo and the great reply. One quick question. I know the at the air intakes below the grates are my primary controls. What is the one on the top used for? . I know that all of the air must come from below the coal so why is there one on the top?

Also Capecoaler, Yes I bought it from Barnstable stove. Doug is a really nice guy but a man of few words. He didnt really tell me much about efficiency or operation at all. He is an incredible craftsman and does an amazing job. I highly recommend him. I just wanted to know about the loss in efficiency due to its age. I know wood stoves have come a long way and are about 50% more efficient than the old ones due to lack of secondary burners or catalytic converters. I do not know if modern coal stoves employ similar technologies


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LsFarm
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Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 12:42 pm

Any above-fire air is secondary air, and this can be used to help burn wood, or to burn off volitile gasses from a fresh load of coal.. If bituminous coal is burnt there is a LOT of volitiles from fresh coal.

I'd say the secondary air vent is to allow the user to burn different fuels.

Greg L

.
Burning Pea/Buckwheat through an antique stoker [semi retired SSboiler],
Running an Axeman-Anderson 260M boiler burning Pea, About 150-250#per day
Farming, Fixing, Fabricating and Flying: 'spare time' what's that?

scottf
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Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique

Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 12:50 pm

This post and another raise another question. I was told to burn nut coal anthracite by the dealer. Can I or should I burn bituminous? Maybe it will be cheaper for me. I know even anthracite is hard to find in Southern New Hampshire. I don't know if I can even find bituminous. I have been told by several people that we don't even have any good anthracite in this area and that it all burns like burning gravel. Even one stove dealer/ restorer told me this .

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wsherrick
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
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Location: High In The Poconos

Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 5:42 pm

scottf wrote:Thank you Wsherrick, that is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks for the photo and the great reply. One quick question. I know the at the air intakes below the grates are my primary controls. What is the one on the top used for? . I know that all of the air must come from below the coal so why is there one on the top?

Also Capecoaler, Yes I bought it from Barnstable stove. Doug is a really nice guy but a man of few words. He didnt really tell me much about efficiency or operation at all. He is an incredible craftsman and does an amazing job. I highly recommend him. I just wanted to know about the loss in efficiency due to its age. I know wood stoves have come a long way and are about 50% more efficient than the old ones due to lack of secondary burners or catalytic converters. I do not know if modern coal stoves employ similar technologies
You are quite welcome. I'm sure these great forum members will point you in the right direction when it comes to obtaining good quality coal. Don't overly stress out about it. There are bound to be some dealers near you that sell good coal. You just have to find them.

If I am not mistaken, your Geneva Oak is a ,"base burner," type stove. Again, there are no naturally aspirated stoves made today that can match it's performance or levels of efficiency. You should call the fellow at Barnstable Stove Shop and ask him how to operate a base burner. He should be more than happy to assist you. I'm sure he wants to have a satisfied and informed customer. Basically, base burners circulate the exhaust through a series of passages before the smoke finally exits at the stove collar. In this manner they extract most of the heat from the fire. On most of these there is a movable damper built into the stove to change the exhaust from direct vent into the longer flue path after a good draft is established.

To answer your question about the secondary air bell vent in the door-It is for use when wood or soft coal is burned. Many old timers started their anthracite fires with bituminous because the bituminous lights quickly and easily and so would light off the anthracite in no time at all. The only disadvantage to that method I guess is the bituminous will soot up your nice mica windows in the door.

ScottD
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Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 6:18 pm

Scott,
That is one sweet stove. I'm starting to restore my antique and hopefully it will be ready this year. Good luck with it!

Adam,
Now you can back off on mine and focus your attention on that fully restored beauty! :drool:

CapeCoaler
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Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
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Location: Cape Cod, MA

Post Fri. Aug. 22, 2008 11:47 pm

Burn anthracite, you can find good stuff.
These base burners are the very peak of coal design, very efficient.
I am not an engineer, train or otherwise!
I stay at a Holiday Inn at least once a year!
Most of all I do have common sense and a practical application of logic.
Oh, add humor, on the dry side, along with a wee bit 'o sarcasm.

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Adamiscold
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Joined: Fri. Feb. 29, 2008 7:09 am
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School
Location: Winchendon,Ma

Post Sat. Aug. 23, 2008 7:14 am

ScottD wrote: Adam,
Now you can back off on mine and focus your attention on that fully restored beauty! :drool:
I don't give up that easy Scott, that's wishful thinking on your part! :nono:

*Google searching how to get past viscous lap dogs*
Adam

http://www.homepower.com <-- Great magazine.

scottf
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed. Mar. 12, 2008 3:04 pm
Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique

Post Tue. Aug. 26, 2008 3:27 pm

If I am not mistaken, your Geneva Oak is a ,"base burner," type stove. Again, there are no naturally aspirated stoves made today that can match it's performance or levels of efficiency. You should call the fellow at Barnstable Stove Shop and ask him how to operate a base burner. He should be more than happy to assist you. I'm sure he wants to have a satisfied and informed customer. Basically, base burners circulate the exhaust through a series of passages before the smoke finally exits at the stove collar. In this manner they extract most of the heat from the fire. On most of these there is a movable damper built into the stove to change the exhaust from direct vent into the longer flue path after a good draft is established.
It was listed as a baseburner but it does not have the series of passages that you speak of. At the top of the burning chamber is the 6 inch opening for the flue to hook up. I have seen some with the tube on the back that must contain the chambers . Mine does not have this. That is one of the reasons I asked about efficiency. Also there are no gaskets on the doors although they do seem to fit tight. I thought maybe it would be very leaky due to this fact. Thanks for all the information. I will light it up soon and find out. Pray for cold.


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