New to coal with a lot of questions

 
PlanelyFlyin
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue. May. 03, 2022 1:29 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: A cookstove of some kind in the future
Other Heating: Currently a Quadrafire 1200 pellet stove

Post by PlanelyFlyin » Tue. May. 03, 2022 3:47 pm

I've been spending a lot of time reading through this forum the last few month. I've learned a lot but now have even more questions it seems like. Finally figured I should just join :)
We are thinking about getting a coal/wood cookstove to use for cooking and heating. We are currently heating with a pellet stove and use about 2 1/2 - 3 tons of pellets a year, plus some supplemental heat with electric space heaters. Our house is 1200sq.ft. but we are in the process of adding on so this next winter it'll be 1800sq.ft. It's a 1920 farmhouse with no insulation in the walls and some blown-in in the attic.. We are thinking of the cookstove because then we could cook and and heat our house when the power goes out (it does a lot here because of the wind).
I can get anthracite from Tractor Supply for about $450/ton and there is a Blaschak dealer about 3 hours from me. I think his price is $530/ton. I can also get Bit coal from a guy here in locally (I live in SE Idaho) for $80-120/ton. He said it's from a mine in Utah. Is the athracite going to be that much better that it would be worth getting it, or would the bit coal be the better way to go? Also, based on our pellet usage, how much of each kind of coal would we be using approximately?
For stoves I've been looking at some of the modern built ones that they sell at Obadiah's stoves, mostly the Heco brand. I've also talked with the guys at Antique Stove Hospital about getting an antique one and they recommended a Glenwood K for the size of our home and if we end up going with the bit coal it'll be easier to clean. Just wondering if anyone has any experience using either of those?
One other thing I was wondering, In all the internet reading I've done, of course I read a lot of articles about how coal is going to kill you and all you love if you burn it in your home, a little exaggerated it would seem, but one thing I read that I would like to know a bit more about if possible is the amount of the heavy metals, particularly lead, that can be present in coal smoke. Is that actually something to be concerned about? Got 4 little munchkins in the house and their health is important! Tied to that is... will a cookstove (Antique versus Modern made too?) run a higher risk of smoke leaking out than just a heating stove. I've never seen one in person yet so I'm not sure how well sealed they are.
Just a couple months ago I knew nothing about coal, so it's been a lot of fun learning about something new to me, and this forum very quickly became my go to source of real world information when I found it, so thanks for being here!


 
franco b
Site Moderator
Posts: 11416
Joined: Wed. Nov. 05, 2008 5:11 pm
Location: Kent CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Post by franco b » Tue. May. 03, 2022 4:22 pm

Burning bit coal means lots of smoke, smell, and soot. None of that with anthracite.

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Tue. May. 03, 2022 4:54 pm

Welcome to the coal forum, PlanelyFlyin! You've come to the right place to ask questions. :D
I'll try to address a few of them.
PlanelyFlyin wrote:
Tue. May. 03, 2022 3:47 pm
Is the athracite going to be that much better that it would be worth getting it, or would the bit coal be the better way to go?
Bit and Anthracite are both coal but are night and day different. Anthracite is the highest ranked coal, bituminous is ranked just underneath it. Both have very similar heat value. Anthracite burns very cleanly with very little smoke. It also has a more stable and steady heat output. An anthracite fire also needs less maintenance.

Bit on the other hand is a little more dirty burning in a batch fed stove and the odor from the smoke can be more offensive. There also tends to be soot build up in the stove and pipe that needs regular cleaning which can be quite a dirty job. Unlike Anthracite, bit coal doesn't have a nice steady heat output since there is more hydrocarbon gas locked up in it that gets released when its heated. Bit fires also seem to be more fickle to contend with, requiring more attention. Bit coals can vary quite a lot, some are more user friendly than others. There are stoves that are better designed for bit coal such as a Warm Morning model. Others may come along to suggest different stoves that are also good for bituminous use.
PlanelyFlyin wrote:
Tue. May. 03, 2022 3:47 pm
Also, based on our pellet usage, how much of each kind of coal would we be using approximately?
Pellets only have about 2/3s the heating value of coal per weight. Meaning a ton of coal has about 24 million BTUs worth of heat value, a ton of pellets has about 16.5 million. So 3 tons of wood pellets would equal about 2 tons of coal.
PlanelyFlyin wrote:
Tue. May. 03, 2022 3:47 pm
is the amount of the heavy metals, particularly lead, that can be present in coal smoke. Is that actually something to be concerned about?
In my opinion, no.. But as with any heating equipment that burns fossil fuels (natural gas, propane, fuel oil, coal ect...) there can be the threat of carbon monoxide. Every home should have 2 or more CO alarms that are regularly maintained. There is a lot of nonsense online lol, thousands of homes are heated with coal everyday with no problems..

I live closer to the anthracite fields so its much less expensive here at $250 per ton. But in your case where its almost double that and bit only being about a quarter of the cost, I can see why it would be a lot more appealing. So I guess you'd need to decide which is more important to determine which direction to go, the low cost for bituminous and the issues it may entail or the ease of use with anthracite which will obviously cost a lot more money.. Personally, I love anthracite and am probably more biased with it, but with a price difference like that I would be willing to experiment with bit coal and try to make it work but only with the right stove..

 
User avatar
warminmn
Member
Posts: 8110
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Tue. May. 03, 2022 5:49 pm

If there is real good high btu firewood there and you are determined to get a cookstove there are some new cookstove models with large fireboxes for wood that might work out cheaper than using anthracite... and I rarely recommend wood.

Learning how to load and use bit without smoke has a learning curve and can be hard to do. Especially in a top loading cookstove or any stove that isnt airtight (has seams that could leak).

Heco's look to be a beautiful stove and there will be many jealous people here, including myself, if you get one but using bit in it you could end out disappointed because of smoke. I can do it with little smell in my riteway but I have to let it burn way down, load 20-40 pounds real quick (I put on a table inches from the stove) and close the door. You'd be surprised how strong a little bit of bit can smell.

 
PlanelyFlyin
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue. May. 03, 2022 1:29 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: A cookstove of some kind in the future
Other Heating: Currently a Quadrafire 1200 pellet stove

Post by PlanelyFlyin » Tue. May. 03, 2022 8:45 pm

warminmn wrote:
Tue. May. 03, 2022 5:49 pm
Heco's look to be a beautiful stove and there will be many jealous people here, including myself, if you get one but using bit in it you could end out disappointed because of smoke.
That's the thing with the Heco's, you can only use anthracite in them. If we went with that one we'd be locked in to anthracite. I like the idea of being able to burn any kind of coal if we wanted/ needed to or wood. The only firewood we can get here is pine or aspen, so not very good in that department. There was another modern stove that could burn any coal but it wasn't rated to heat the sq.ft. of our house.

 
fig
Member
Posts: 1137
Joined: Fri. Feb. 12, 2016 2:36 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF360
Hand Fed Coal Stove: T.O.M (Warm Morning converted to baseburner by Steve) Round Oak 1917 Door model O-3, Warm Morning 400, Warm Morning 524, Warm Morning 414,Florence No.77, Warm Morning 523-b
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 7.1/DS Machine basement stove/ Harman SF1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Renown Parlor stove 87B
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous/anthracite
Other Heating: Harman Accentra, enviro omega, Vermont Ironworks Elm stove, Quadrafire Mt Vernon, Logwood stove, Sotz barrel stove,

Post by fig » Tue. May. 03, 2022 8:48 pm

My experience with bit is there is more smoke but only on start up and reload. Once the gases burn off there’s no smoke. The stuff I had burns fast though. Other vein varieties may burn longer. If you burn bit use 8” stove pipe or larger and you won’t have to worry about the soot.
I have been burning anthracite the last few years for longer burns. The price is getting ridiculous so I may go back to bit. Pellets are much cheaper but that could change too.

 
User avatar
warminmn
Member
Posts: 8110
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Tue. May. 03, 2022 9:46 pm

PlanelyFlyin wrote:
Tue. May. 03, 2022 8:45 pm
That's the thing with the Heco's, you can only use anthracite in them. If we went with that one we'd be locked in to anthracite. I like the idea of being able to burn any kind of coal if we wanted/ needed to or wood. The only firewood we can get here is pine or aspen, so not very good in that department. There was another modern stove that could burn any coal but it wasn't rated to heat the sq.ft. of our house.
Its possible it will burn wood or bit but they cant admit it because of EPA stuff or UL listings. They used to sell some stoves that mentioned the different fuels (multi-fuel stoves) but now dont because of rules and laws.

Pine and aspen doesnt sound like great choices for wood except maybe outdoor burners.


 
User avatar
coaledsweat
Site Moderator
Posts: 13763
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Guilford, Connecticut
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Post by coaledsweat » Wed. May. 04, 2022 6:49 am

Anthracite is very consistent compared to bituminous. A factor to consider.

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Wed. May. 04, 2022 9:56 am

So, your first important decision is to settle on one or maybe two fuels. No single stove will burn everything well. I get that logic says get the one that does it all…but that will compromise all but one at best.
Then choose your stove second…not the other way around.

 
PlanelyFlyin
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue. May. 03, 2022 1:29 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: A cookstove of some kind in the future
Other Heating: Currently a Quadrafire 1200 pellet stove

Post by PlanelyFlyin » Wed. May. 04, 2022 10:37 am

warminmn wrote:
Tue. May. 03, 2022 5:49 pm
using bit in it you could end out disappointed because of smoke. I can do it with little smell in my riteway but I have to let it burn way down, load 20-40 pounds real quick (I put on a table inches from the stove) and close the door. You'd be surprised how strong a little bit of bit can smell.
I'm assuming it's the sulfur in the coal that causes the smell? In my search for coal this side of the rockys I came across one of the mine companies in Utah that actually had the compositional breakdown of the bit coal from all their mines, and most of it was about half a percent of sulfur. That seems lower than the average sulfur content I've read about elsewhere, would that mean it would not be as strong smelling?

 
PlanelyFlyin
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue. May. 03, 2022 1:29 pm
Hand Fed Coal Stove: A cookstove of some kind in the future
Other Heating: Currently a Quadrafire 1200 pellet stove

Post by PlanelyFlyin » Wed. May. 04, 2022 10:43 am

warminmn wrote:
Tue. May. 03, 2022 9:46 pm
Its possible it will burn wood or bit but they cant admit it because of EPA stuff or UL listings. They used to sell some stoves that mentioned the different fuels (multi-fuel stoves) but now dont because of rules and laws.
Hecos can burn wood, in fact I think they are purpose built for wood but then you can get coal grates for them to burn coal, but only the anthracite (sorry, wasn't clear on that). I've wondered why only the anthracite, makes sense that it's because of the EPA stuff since they are a UL listed stove.

 
User avatar
Paper
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun. May. 01, 2022 8:53 pm
Location: IL/WI State Line and Worland, WY
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Working on it
Other Heating: Woodland wood stove

Post by Paper » Wed. May. 04, 2022 2:37 pm

I have absolutely nothing to add, but wanted to be subscribed to this thread. Usually there's a button I can push on phpBB forums (been everything from a mod to an administrator on these).
Anyway, carry on, and I really like bacon (some sort of content that helps the topic)

 
User avatar
nepacoal
Member
Posts: 1696
Joined: Wed. Nov. 21, 2012 7:49 am
Location: Coal Country
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4 / "Kelly" and an EFM 520 at my in-laws
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-260 - retired
Coal Size/Type: Buck

Post by nepacoal » Wed. May. 04, 2022 2:55 pm

At the bottom of the page there is a drop down button with a wrench on it... The subscribe feature is in the drop-down...

 
User avatar
Paper
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun. May. 01, 2022 8:53 pm
Location: IL/WI State Line and Worland, WY
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Working on it
Other Heating: Woodland wood stove

Post by Paper » Wed. May. 04, 2022 3:09 pm

nepacoal wrote:
Wed. May. 04, 2022 2:55 pm
At the bottom of the page there is a drop down button with a wrench on it... The subscribe feature is in the drop-down...
Got it!! Thank you!!

 
User avatar
warminmn
Member
Posts: 8110
Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt

Post by warminmn » Wed. May. 04, 2022 4:13 pm

PlanelyFlyin wrote:
Wed. May. 04, 2022 10:37 am
I'm assuming it's the sulfur in the coal that causes the smell? In my search for coal this side of the rockys I came across one of the mine companies in Utah that actually had the compositional breakdown of the bit coal from all their mines, and most of it was about half a percent of sulfur. That seems lower than the average sulfur content I've read about elsewhere, would that mean it would not be as strong smelling?
Anthracite smells like sulfur but the only time you should smell it is at loading time or if you are outside and smell it from your chimney. Other times you might have a problem, a leaky gasket or low draft, not good. If you shoot black powder thats how it smells.

Bit smells like tires burning, a pile of them. Outside the smell I actually kinda like but not inside. Whatever makes the smell I guess I never really cared. Make sure your spouse is ok with the smell of it before making a habit of burning it. I put smaller pieces in a heavy bag or cardboard and throw that in first. That gives me an extra 5 or 10 seconds to throw loose bit coal in before it starts stinking.


What is the BTU rating on the bit you can get?


Post Reply

Return to “Coal News & General Coal Discussions”