Does the US need a carbon tax?

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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 1:35 pm

Lets open the debate.... This is a complicated subject so many will have different views..

https://www.thebalance.com/carbon-tax-definition- ... ks-4158043

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/wha ... carbon-tax

There are many articles on this which I'm sure others will bring up and we can read them

and make some conclusions.

This tax would also make EV's pay a road tax on the fuel they use , something others have

commented on before.

BigBarney

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 3:11 pm

Barney your arguments are that renewables are cheaper/better. If that is the argument you will continue to use then you'll first need to explain the need for a tax to begin with.
This tax would also make EV's pay a road tax on the fuel they use
That is a Red Herring, a carbon tax would affect the cost of everything and anything collected from EV's would be fractions of a percent of the total cost.

The solution to this is simple, make them pay a per mile tax. If I recall around 2.5 cents per mile for similar sized ICE vehicle. In fact I would suggest we completely remove fuel taxes altogether and switch everything to per mile tax using a formula based on the weight of the vehicle. This would necessarily increase the cost to trucking industry which is heavily subsidized.

The costs will reduced for the motoring public to drive on the roads and people who do not drive but still benefit from roads will be paying their fair share though increased costs of the goods they are purchasing. This last point usually wins over those reluctant to agree to a per mile tax.

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 4:07 pm

The tax revenue should be used help subsidize the changeover to less carbon intensive

fuels . A road use tax would be a way to help with infrastructure maintenance and impro-

vement.

The carbon tax would affect all prices so for low income wage earners a credit would be

given to ease the tax. This money would come from the tax on users.

The $0.025 could be added to the registration each year and adjusted if you used more or

less then a set minimum , 10,000 miles or the average US driver, you would owe or get a

credit on the next yearly renewal .

We could encourage use of carbon free processes by a similar plan, Canada already has

a plan of this type.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_pricing_in_Canada

Manitoba, Ontario, Saskatchewan, and New Brunswick refused to impose their own emissions pricing so the federal pricing came into effect on April 1. Residents of the four provinces pay more for gasoline and heating fuel. The "starting rate added 4.4 cents to the price of a litre of gas, about four cents to a cubic metre of natural gas". The price of propane, butane and aviation fuel will also increase. Residents will receive rebates on their income tax returns. Amounts will vary with each province.[52] In Saskatchewan for example, a family of four will receive $609 in 2019.[53]

BigBarney

 
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Post by KLook » Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 4:50 pm

The tax to subsidize the change over is unnecessary until EV's are in a position to be changed to.....You want to force the public to drive EV's because you are a shill for the EV movement. As Obama said, energy prices must necessarily skyrocket. The only way EV's are the best choice is ruin the oil business.

Kevin


 
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 5:34 pm

BigBarney wrote:
Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 4:07 pm
The tax revenue should be used help subsidize the changeover to less carbon intensive

fuels .
Why the need for a tax? If the alternatives are better and as you keep arguing the market will dictate it.

The carbon tax would affect all prices so for low income wage earners a credit would be

given to ease the tax. This money would come from the tax on users.
If the alternatives such as solar and wind are cheaper as you keep arguing their costs go down and no need to subsidize anything.

You need to a make up your mind Barney. These alternatives are either cost competitive or need government interference such as carbon tax on top of the mandates and subisdies.

You can't have both. Which is it?
We could encourage use of carbon free processes by a similar plan, Canada already has

a plan of this type.
Most of Canada's electric is generated by hydrolectric damns which are not subject to a carbon tax. If you want to understand the issues and expenses for industries related to Canada's carbon tax look into the cement industry.

 
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Post by KLook » Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 6:16 pm

Canada has the population of California.....and a lot more land......Their energy needs are trivial compared to ours....

Kevin

 
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Post by Richard S. » Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 9:20 pm

BigBarney wrote:
Tue. Jun. 08, 2021 4:07 pm

The carbon tax would affect all prices so for low income wage earners a credit would be

given to ease the tax.
One other thing, low income brackets overwhelming support liberals. Since these schemes are being supported by liberals they can pay for them along with the rest of us. If you are going to vote for people that are going to increase your living expenses deal with it, don't expect a handout or any sympathy from me.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Wed. Jun. 09, 2021 5:43 am

Just what we need, another tax.


 
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Post by gaw » Wed. Jun. 09, 2021 8:11 am

"Need" that's an interesting word, people get wants and needs mixed up all the time.

 
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Post by warminmn » Wed. Jun. 09, 2021 9:20 am

Tax that and then horse pies and cow flatulence will be next. Save the earth! Yeah right

 
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Post by oros35 » Wed. Jun. 09, 2021 10:06 am

PA is already moving forward with a carbon tax, along with 10 other states in the area. Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative

https://www.dep.pa.gov/Citizens/climate/Pages/RGGI.aspx

https://www.rggi.org/

Bottom line this is a tax on carbon emission. The more you generate, the more you pay. The idea is to make it less economical to use fossil fuels. Force companies to switch to non-emissions power generation, or pay a penalty.

The tax, or costs to convert and not pay the tax, will be passed down to everyone that uses electric.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Wed. Jun. 09, 2021 11:13 am

oros35 wrote:
Wed. Jun. 09, 2021 10:06 am
PA is already moving forward with a carbon tax, along with 10 other states in the area. Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative
PA isn't going forward with this. Wolf is through executive action. Republicans will put as much pressure as needed to stop this. Like the EPA he is trying to use the DEP to regulate CO2 with legislation that was intended to address pollutants like SO2. If for any reason it is finalized it will end up in the courts, possibly tossed by the courts or simply nixed by the next governor who will likely be Republican.

 
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Post by warminmn » Wed. Jun. 09, 2021 5:39 pm

Unsure which of BB's posts to put this in... This will make the green energy folks happy https://www.wsj.com/articles/keystone-xl-oil-proj ... 1623272010

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