Which Stove can handle -40 F ?

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Sat. Apr. 25, 2020 11:15 pm

I think this list needs some pictures. Why?

Don’t know about y’all, but I’m seeing some red flags in some of the OP’s posts that have me scratching my head. Can’t be real specific as of yet because I’d want to read through this thread again.

One thing I question is: How many square feet is the house, how many cubic feet of air space? That means ceiling height needs addressed.

Two... house wrap will help with wind.

Three... wall and attic insulation needs. He checked...to see if it exists.

Four...any air leak tests for the house you can do will help. Someone addressed these already, but you should do them IF you want that place warm. Someone mentioned a “Manual J” or something along that line. Do it!!! Your electric provider can provide you names of people to perform these tests.

Five...don’t think I’ve heard anything specific about chimneys, if they exist, and if they do, please mention their condition and material construction as well as chimney height, location inside or outside the house, how high in relation to the roof, clearance to obstacles, etc.

Six...not all plastic siding is the same. You get what you pay for, be it from a box store, builder supply, or reputable siding contractor in your area. Cedar wood is an option. Research pros and cons of cedar or redwood (harder to find and expensive), pros and cons of various plastic/vinyl sidings, then pros and cons of the best vinyl siding you can afford versus the wood.

Did I mention wall and plenty of attic insulation and calling your electric provider to do a heat loss survey for you? Well worth what little it costs.

Here’s a partial list of companies that make big stoves.

-Hitzer...82, 50-93, 354, 983 free standing ... will burn coal or wood and a big stoves. Not sure if they’re big enough, but it’s a start on research. Coal stoves that burn anthracite, bituminous. A couple can burn wood. You can ask around here to see which ones will burn wood. $$$$

-Legacy coal stoves...Mark III, SF 250 $$$$

Large wood stoves...

-Woodstock Soapstone Hybrid Progress...$$$$

Kuma Sequioa...$$$$

-Hearthstone...$$$$

-Quadrafire...$$$$

Lopi $$$$

Regency $$$$

England Stove Works: Summer’s Heat NC30 $$$

Drolet HT 2000/3000 $$$

The above wood stove companies all make decent EPA stoves many of which will meet new May 2020 regulations right now. Heating homes from 2000sq.ft to 3000 sq.ft.

IF...big if...if your home is bigger than 2000sq.ft. and is insulated well, you could look into some of the much older non-EPA stoves, that are built like Sherman tanks and were made to put out a lot of heat. Fisher stoves are the stoves to look for. There were some companies that tried to copy them that may serve you well...these are wood stoves. They might eat more wood, but less chance of something going wrong than modern EPA wood stoves, in my opinion, and with good dry wood seasoned for two years or more, these old stoves, again my opinion are just as easy to operate and without catalytic converters to replace, or secondary air tubes to replace.

Plenty of good old wood stoves left that will be around another 100 years or more.

You have lots of research to do. Ask questions. Lots of helpful people here.

I'm not worried about operation of stove too much. I plan to have it 15 feet from me in the corner of the living room where I am 90% of time. Since I work from home, I don't have a problem playing with the stove every 4 hours. Though, would prefer if it could be big enough to burn for at least 6-8 hours for the night.

Regarding EPA regs - does it mean those companies just discontinue current offerings each year ? So I can only get the better older stove if it's still somewhere in some store (it shipped to last year) ?

As much as I'm concerned about environment, I'm not going to freeze to death to save the planet. Screw that. This is not California. We've had -48 few months ago and the number of weeks below -30 is substantial.
So, it's safe to say, I do not care about EPA. I've been freezing whole bloody winter...

As for chimneys - I can't use the current one. It's on the other side of the house. No way to get there.
I plan on just building some simpler chimney that will be, perhaps 3 feet above the ceiling, or as high as it will prove practical during building it.

Ceiling height - I can almost reach it - I need about half foot to touch it.

Alright, I just measured it:

This is the open part of the ground floor (except bedroom, which for some inexplicable reason, the original owner actually left the door there!)

Back Entrance:205x120
Kitchen : 157x205
Living Room: 173x155
Front Entrance: 215x65
hallway: 60x48
bedroom: 140x160

I put it into excel and got 122,855 sq.inches

Which the google converted to 853 sq.ft

The upper floor should be identical, but it's closed off with the separate door.

Hoytman wrote: ↑

Tue. Apr. 28, 2020 10:42 pm

By the way...without knowing the size of the home and how elk insulate I’d say any wood stove built would be pushed hard to maintain inside temps in -40F temps.

I'm still going to keep the electric baseboard heaters. For a backup.

Or, if it would prove to be problematic at -40, then I'll turn electric heater on for those 4-6 weeks, on top of the stove...


But, since as I just found out, the area is just 853 sq.feet, if some stove is supposed to heat 2,500 sq.ft, then it should do just fine handling one third of that, right ?

Not meaning to offend you, but some of your questions tell men you need in-depth research of this.

Stove shops are trying to unload any stove they have that will not meet the May 2020 regulations.

An older stove is no frills or worked with a good and proper chimney above it. Fisher wood stoves are serious heaters and still bring good prices. Shop around craigslist and watch prices for a while, or get a modern stove.

Blaze King 40 ( used to be the King model) can be loaded with 90 lbs of hardwood and burning 40+ hours on one load in the right house under the right conditions. It’s catalytic stove.

Quadra-Fire’s big step top steel stove and the cast iron Royals can burn 40 under same conditions. These are output times based on low burn. These are secondary air tube stoves.

Lopi Endeavor is a good big stove, doesn’t burn nearly as long on low. Air tube stove.

You could burn a Hitzer 354 or 983 with a leg kit ( it comes standard as an insert but a leg kit is available) with wood though EPA regulations say the maker can no longer advertise the stove to burn wood anymore. Dean says the stove is still made the same, so it still burns wood. Dean Lehman at Hitzer says legally he can’t tell you it will burn wood, but it will do just fine. Not as efficient as the two above, but in my opinion better built and their customer service is awesome.

You could burn wood in. D.S.Machine stove as well, Comfortmax model...nice well built stove much like the Hitzer...both Amish made and both will burn anthracite coal as well.

Chimney for wood, if you have to build one or put one in a new location get the best double wall stainless steel chimney pipe you can afford ... 15 ft tall minimum or much higher.

If you think you’ll burn any coal at all, then go with an all masonry chimney as it will last much longer than stainless steel. Take care of the masonry and out the right cap on it and it will last three of you.

You can buy the Amish made stoves, which are built like tanks, for about half or a little more than half less than the soapstone stoves I mentioned in my other posts.

Your home size and insulation, then deciding how often you want or don’t want to tend a stove will dictate the stove you need, just like typical cold for the area you live as well as length of winter and more importantly how well a stove is made.

Dare I say, only an Amish made stove...Hitzer’s and/or D.S. Machine Stove’s could ever rival the old Fisher wood stove build quality. Those are the only two modern makers that come close All other modern stoves just can’t compare. Lopi stoves might be in the same class.

Woodstock steel stoves build quality is way up there with the others, but because most of their stoves have converters or are hybrid stoves, containing catalytic converters and secondary air tubes, I hesitate to recommend them. Converters are expensive to replace and some of their steel stoves they are having issues with.

Not to mention many of these new modern wood stoves...most...unlike Woodstock’s...are just now building stoves to meet the new EPA standards...and there will be bugs that need worked out. You don’t want to be a guinea pig in cold country like you live in. You need a stove that works.

Either get an...
...old Fisher stove someone has took care or restored, or get. D.S.M. Comfortmax,!or even better a Hitzer 254/354 or 983...depending on the size of your home and your needs. All three Hitzer models come with a single load door and ash pan w/door, and can be ordered with a double load doors...which is how I would order it. In fact you’d have to order it that way to burn wood...even though they can’t tell you that any longer. LOL!!!

TenderFrost wrote: ↑

Wed. Apr. 29, 2020 12:53 am

I'm still going to keep the electric baseboard heaters. For a backup.

Or, if it would prove to be problematic at -40, then I'll turn electric heater on for those 4-6 weeks, on top of the stove...


But, since as I just found out, the area is just 853 sq.feet, if some stove is supposed to heat 2,500 sq.ft, then it should do just fine handling one third of that, right ?

Yes. Might be way over kill too though depending on insulation or lack of it. If it’s well insulated a Hitzer 254 will be fine. If not get the bigger 354. The 983 will be too big as will many of the other stoves I’ve mentioned.

See how knowing how many sq.ft. has changed things already.

Good insulated house a Lopi Liberty/Endeavor would work.


Many of those names I mentioned will make stoves that will fill your needs, just might be different models than I mentioned...which were for large homes or really cold climates like yours.

Remember this...
You can put less wood in a bigger stove, but you can’t put more wood in a full stove...meaning some may be too small.

Hitzer 55 would be a great stove for you also. Many are shipped and used in Alaska!for wood and coal...anthracite coal or bituminous.

There is a lignite coal as well. If you have coal available find out what kind it is first.

Woodstock builds a stove that burns wood called a Navajo stove. If you call them they also build a similar stove to burn lignite coal. I suspect these may be too small unless your home is extremely insulated.

Ok, stupid question:

Is there a difference in heat output/BTUs if you put the same four pieces of wood into smallest stove compared to largest stove like King40?

I get it that they will have different efficiency. That's fine.


But the input is the same four pieces of wood. So, on a warmer day in spring I can still use the biggest stove.

But when it's -48, I will be freezing if all I have is the smallest stove.

So, other than entry price, is there any reason to NOT buy the biggest stove?

Best to be able to idle it down during cuff months then not to have it during cold of real winter!

freetown fred wrote: ↑

Wed. Apr. 29, 2020 6:14 am

Best to be able to idle it down during cuff months then not to have it during cold of real winter!

Spot on!

If your only going to have one stove make it a big one. 2 stoves then a big one and a little one for milder weather.

I am unsure if anyone has mentioned it but a possible Lignite Coal supplier for you would be Center Coal Company (formerly Shulte coal) (701)-794-3400. They have stoker and lump lignite coal.
The latest price I have from them for the treated stoker coal is $58.50 a ton plus delivery


A builder of stoker furnaces and boilers that can burn lignite is Maertens MFG.
they are also locate in Center North Dakota. www.maertensmfg.com (701)-794-3183
The e-mail for them is [email protected]

McGiever wrote: ↑

Wed. Apr. 22, 2020 8:39 am

Being in the electric trade for many decades my short answer is "Watts are Watts" .

In other words, there can be no magical differences...

TenderFrost wrote: ↑

Wed. Apr. 29, 2020 12:19 am

One difference is that those portable radiators that have oil in them still produce some heat for two hours after you disconnect them.

I was wondering, as an experiment, if you had 2 such portable radiators, and kept switching them on and off every 4 hours, if it wouldn't make the room warmer.

The electric consumption would still be just 1.5 kW per hour, like it is now with the baseboard heating.

But, there would be an additional passive heat generated by the heated oil for 24 hours (every 4 hours the other heater).

It's just a speculation - it's entirely possible that during the time it would take to heat the oil up, the room temperature wouldn't go up (as it would with baseboard heat that starts heating instantly).

I will defer to my first reply..."Watts are Watts" .

In other words, there can be no magical differences...

Reserve or residual heat in a switched/cycled off heater fill with oil did not sneak in with bypassing the electric meter for free either. WATTS in are WATTS out. The oil is able to "flatten the curve" as to output rate but you will not win a free prize.

Wouldn't be a May if we didn't have a raging blizzard now

Managed to walk my dog for only 10 minutes.

Both electric heaters blasting and I'm wearing the thick fleece vest inside

Someone posted a contact for a coal. That begs the question.



Just how many tons of coal for season would I need if I would have started burning it on October 02 with first snow ?!? This is already 7th month. I had maybe two nights this month when I didn't turn the heaters on for the night (and regretted in morning).

T-frost,
If you're real lucky, this maybe the last snow 'til September.............!
Are you in a farmhouse, or, in a town? Any neighbors to ask what they use for heat? The North Dakotans(NoDaks) are the friendliest people anywhere. Any advice from the locals will benefit you in your decision. Take care.
Cheers

I think the ND lignite is a little over 7300 BTU's a pound if that helps any. With how cheap it is I'd get 10 ton and see how long it lasts, then order more. It does not handle outdoor weather very well, just crumbles up and flakes, so keep it covered well and get in late summer or early fall. The fine stuff, just put 10 pounds +/- in a bag and throw it in, bag and all, at bedtime so hopefully you still have a fire in the morning. Im going to guess a ton every 2 weeks but that depends on the weather, maybe more, maybe less.

Speak to the lignite dealer for price delivered and types of stoves he recommends.

Check propane as well for availability. Current low prices will not last.

Modern wood stoves will not burn coal.

I believe there is *some* insulation. Please hear me out and tell me if my thinking is correct:

When I moved in last ~September, there was about 2-3 weeks period before first snowstorm hit. I instantly noticed that this house was good 15-20 degrees F cooler than my last apartment (brick building). While my previous apartment hovered around 85 F, the house was around 65-70. Even at night, the apartment's walls were literally hot, so I had to run AC the moment outdoor temps reached 65, since 65 can heat up brick wall real nice...

The apartment's temp was linearly dependent on outside temp. Instantly. Not the house. Regardless of outdoor temp, it kept its cool for over half day or more.

I just confirmed it this week, as we had some days that were up to 65-70 'F. Inside the house, the range was 58-62. House isn't in a shade or anything, so there must be *SOME* insulation that can keep it cool for about 12-18 hours.