Idaho Solar Power Cost to closeout Coal

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 1:15 pm

How can you beat $0.025 per KWHr ???? 20 years with small

increase each year....

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/idah ... #gs.4brmau

Coal plants have costs nearly double the the amount of these

contracted prices... They lose solely on price...

BigBarney


 
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Post by coalnewbie » Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 9:27 pm

So you are in competition with coal at 5. You need to take it out and so promise half of that. Knowing that a coal unit can't be put back on line you drive it out of business. When you have done that, you submit a budget adjustment and costs go to 10 and you blame whatever. This is how Germany spent over one trillion dollars with solar and is now stuck with very high power costs. Color me suspicious but I wish solar well but it may be smart to keep multiple options.

 
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Post by KLook » Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 9:42 pm

But it is a heroic lie Newbie as we must save the world from ourselves...and just wait, Elon is going to take a big toke and dream up a new battery that will store 100 times more energy in a pack the size of a beer can. And it will be made from recycled plastic from the Pacific ocean and coal ashes.
I wish he would work on my flying car......

Kevin

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 4:35 am

KLook wrote:
Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 9:42 pm
But it is a heroic lie Newbie as we must save the world from ourselves...and just wait, Elon is going to take a big toke and dream up a new battery that will store 100 times more energy in a pack the size of a beer can. And it will be made from recycled plastic from the Pacific ocean and coal ashes.
I wish he would work on my flying car......

Kevin
He has already said, flying cars are worthless, if you want a flying car put wheels on a helicopter! Lol he says tunnels are faster. Hence the Boring Company.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 6:31 am

It is a lot easier to brag about your solar array when 50% or more of your baseline power is hydroelectric...like Idaho.

 
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Post by titleist1 » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 9:57 am

KLook wrote:
Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 9:42 pm
But it is a heroic lie Newbie as we must save the world from ourselves...and just wait, Elon is going to take a big toke and dream up a new battery that will store 100 times more energy in a pack the size of a beer can. And it will be made from recycled plastic from the Pacific ocean and coal ashes.
I wish he would work on my flying car......

Kevin
Elon's businesses are all geared toward usefulness on Mars not Earth. He will have the Mars market cornered on boring machines for underground habitats, solar power generation, battery storage, etc.

 
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Post by BigBarney » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 12:07 pm

Maybe this is an ideal situation where you have sun during the day

and the water flow 24 hours a day to be able to charge a large battery

for 24 hour coverage. Everything is available today to accomplish

this .

That would probably even lower the cost of the electric more over

the whole day and out compete all fosill fuels .

Nothing beats free energy and no waste produced...

BigBarney


 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 12:15 pm

Nothing is free...
Everything has a "cost"...
There is always "waste"...
Depends if the "waste" is manageable...

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 12:25 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:
Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 12:15 pm
Nothing is free...
Everything has a "cost"...
There is always "waste"...
Depends if the "waste" is manageable...
EXACTLY. Production, maintenance, decommission.

Sometimes it DOES pay to look the gift horse in the mouth.

 
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Post by BigBarney » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 12:57 pm

When ? if these solar plants are recycled for the material , they are

of high enough value enough to attract good bids , not like a coal

plant that has lasting degradation to the land and much landfill type

concrete waste . All the panel holders are aluminum and the panel

themselves are glass and metals which are easy to separate into

reuseable scrap. Most would not be recycled ,with new components

and put to use for another 30+ years because new and better panels

are now available .

What about the ash at these sites that has be disposed of???

It costs a lot to haul it to a landfill..

All of the costs you mention are all accounted for in their price of

2.5 cents per KWHr .

BigBarney

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 6:32 pm

And what was the "cost" to mine the materials for the solar panels...
They had to be built...
What will be the "cost" to recycle those panels...
Nothing is done for "free"...
One must look at the "full life-cycle cost"...
To determine the "real" cost of anything...

 
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Post by rberq » Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 6:44 pm

coalnewbie wrote:
Thu. Apr. 04, 2019 9:27 pm
So you are in competition with coal at 5. You need to take it out and so promise half of that. Knowing that a coal unit can't be put back on line you drive it out of business. When you have done that, you submit a budget adjustment and costs go to 10 and you blame whatever.
There must be a really big up-front investment for the solar arrays. Presumably the Idaho Public Utilities Commission can vet the numbers, as can the investors. Ironically, the biggest financial threat may be that inside of 20 years there will be even cheaper and/or more efficient solar panels that make current ones obsolete.

Supposedly, there will be a big installation about 25 miles from me, beginning construction this year. They have been talking about it for several years now. This article says 500 acres, but I have also read that the whole farm is about 500 acres, so I'm not sure how much land will actually be covered. This one talks about a 40-year life span, with the company providing a performance bond for removal of the panels.

http://www.dailybulldog.com/db/features/solar-pow ... nt-page-1/

Edit: Read some of the comments following the article -- some more stuff is explained. It turns out my alma mater is one of the investors. Who knew?

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Sat. Apr. 06, 2019 8:08 am

BigBarney wrote:
Fri. Apr. 05, 2019 12:57 pm
When ? if these solar plants are recycled for the material , they are

of high enough value enough to attract good bids , not like a coal

plant that has lasting degradation to the land and much landfill type

concrete waste . All the panel holders are aluminum and the panel

themselves are glass and metals which are easy to separate into

reuseable scrap. Most would not be recycled ,with new components

and put to use for another 30+ years because new and better panels

are now available .

What about the ash at these sites that has be disposed of???

It costs a lot to haul it to a landfill..

All of the costs you mention are all accounted for in their price of

2.5 cents per KWHr .

BigBarney
Unless these things just appear out of thin air your argument continues to have holes shot all through it. Scrap metal is just that... scrap. No one is breaking down the doors for any of it with the likelyhood that it’s cheaper to produce new. Everyone here is well aware of the fuel production and disposal costs of coal but you provide no numbers on cost to build, operate, and decommission the solar. Talk is cheap... it takes money to buy whiskey.

All of the above are NOT free. You have an awesome ability for cherry picking whatever information tickles your own ears, never mind what it takes to make it a reality. You have been going on with this garbage all Winter long and have yet to provide proof of anything other than the link you found while Googling the latest tech news every morning while you are on the can.

I don’t work for free Sir and neither do/did you. :stfu:

 
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Post by David... » Mon. Apr. 08, 2019 12:20 pm

$.025/kwhr is a good price. I say bring it on.

David

 
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Post by KLook » Mon. Apr. 08, 2019 5:43 pm

$.025/kwhr is a good price. I say bring it on.

Spoken like a true environmentalist. Damn the cost, we will deal with that later, make me feel good today.

Kevin


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