Venezuela Blackout
They are on hot backup and are online just with not
output until needed in peak demand , after all the less
expensive power is used , they still in this state produce
some power but they follow the price curve as far as full
output.
BigBarney
output until needed in peak demand , after all the less
expensive power is used , they still in this state produce
some power but they follow the price curve as far as full
output.
BigBarney
- warminmn
- Member
- Posts: 8110
- Joined: Tue. Feb. 08, 2011 5:59 pm
- Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Riteway 37
- Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
- Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt
Build the damned things in Chicago or on Lake Michigan. plenty of wind in either place, and no electric loss thru the lines. Then i dont have to look at the ugly things here to power that shitty city. Got enough of that going on here now.BigBarney wrote: ↑Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 3:27 pmPoint of all your information is to never be placed in a
situation where you rely on one source of energy and it's
delivery . They have proposed a new underground trans-
mission line from the Iowa windfarms to the grid near
Chicago IL to the PJM so as to use this renewable resource
to power the PJM grid , and I'm all for more diversity of
our power supply.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-io ... story.html
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/independent-deve ... ng/550399/
Keep even a few subsidized plants just for an emergency ,
but keep going ahead with cheaper and cleaner sources .
BigBarney
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
We are talking about a blackout here, that is quite different than the normal day to day.Richard S. wrote: ↑Fri. Mar. 15, 2019 3:40 pmThere is no keeping a "few", when the wind is not blowing and sun isn't shining you need to fully meet power demand or you will have a power failure. Period, no discussion about it. Those systems are absolutely irrelevant where reliability is concerned.
A little splash of renewables might come in handy during the day times and windy periods on a fragmented grid.
But no one would be forced to use it if they have strong convictions opposing such.
- LeoinRI
- Member
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Mon. Dec. 24, 2018 5:59 am
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Fonderies de Lion
- Coal Size/Type: Nut
- Other Heating: J.S. Peckham Chicago #10, Weso, Our Glenwood 111, Sougland Excelsior 183
We had an interesting incident here in RI which demonstrated the frailty of the natural gas system. The supply of gas was cut off to the city of Newport & Middletown. A faulty valve in Massachusetts caused the pressure to drop below minimums in the 1/4 lb gas system supplying about 8000 customers. Fearing explosions from leaking gas from people who had appliances without safety pilots, National Grid shut the 1/4 lb system down. All meters had to be shut off by a technician (no self help allowed), then all customers' pilots lit before meters were turned on individually. Some folks with meters inside the house were away so a locksmith and cop had to accompany technicians for both shutoff/re-light slowing the process down. It took about a week before the system was back to normal. This of course happened with temperatures in single digits.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25567
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
That NG "frailty" is happening all across the country.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/ ... as/570361/
Every form of fuel, or energy source is flawed in some way. If there was one far better than all the rest, everyone would be using it by now.
But, the alternative is,..... who wants to sit in the dark and freeze ?
Paul
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/ ... as/570361/
Every form of fuel, or energy source is flawed in some way. If there was one far better than all the rest, everyone would be using it by now.
But, the alternative is,..... who wants to sit in the dark and freeze ?
Paul
- Richard S.
- Mayor
- Posts: 15184
- Joined: Fri. Oct. 01, 2004 8:35 pm
- Location: NEPA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite
Th aging system are the half of of it, the bigger issue is the supply because of limited infrastructure required to carry it. Back in 2014 they were at the limit. The same people advocating for closing down coal plants will be the same ones protesting new pipelines. As a temporary solution until the infrastructure catches up a lot of Northeast plants can now run on diesel.
-
- Member
- Posts: 2684
- Joined: Fri. Jan. 26, 2007 9:55 pm
- Location: Birdsboro PA.
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading allegheny stoker
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: alaska kodiak stoker 1986. 1987 triburner, 1987 crane diamond
- Coal Size/Type: rice
sucks about venezuela being in the dark. if it happens here we are gonna have nuke plants melting down once the diesel fuel runs out.
big natural gas pipeline projects down here and a new natural gas fired power plant in birdsboro where the armorcast plant used to be. they ran a pipeline a few hundred yards from my house but no natural gas hookups for my area. kind of stupid if you ask me when we got all that waste coal that was left on the surface.
big natural gas pipeline projects down here and a new natural gas fired power plant in birdsboro where the armorcast plant used to be. they ran a pipeline a few hundred yards from my house but no natural gas hookups for my area. kind of stupid if you ask me when we got all that waste coal that was left on the surface.
When electrical supply was deregulated, starting out west, wasn't there rolling blackouts in California? back in the 1990s?warminmn wrote: ↑Thu. Mar. 14, 2019 2:33 pmOr they create a limited supply illusion so they can start gouging, like oil has been doing for decades. Im unsure if we will ever get to the 80% mark though, but I do not have the present figures in front of me, so it may be possible.
We are extremely unprepared as a nation for any type of huge electrical problem. Dont be thinking generators are the answer if it becomes long term. Its much better to be able to live without any type of power or assistance. Hunting only lasts so long cuz thats what all the unprepared will be doing, and soon the game is gone.
I seem to recall suppliers were investigated and found a few brokers manufactured a supply bottle neck in order to raise their prices. Fading memories.
Was it like 2004 or around there? was a some sort of local burn out in northeastern Ohio that caused a week long blackout through parts of PA, much of NY, and surrounding states and into Canada.CapeCoaler wrote: ↑Thu. Mar. 14, 2019 10:22 amDon't even need an EMP to take the grid down...
There are about 15 critical junction/transformer locations...
Not highly secured...
Take them out and you still have all the cars and electronics...
Won't have power but the vast majority of items will still work after you apply power again...
Same with cars trucks and trains...
It wo't be an external attack but an internal one...
Think about it some...
- oros35
- Member
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Mon. Feb. 02, 2009 3:47 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh Pa
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Cozeburn OWB burning Bit
- Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
Not true. 1 Week supply of Diesel on site. So you have some time to get fuel. I'm sure it would be a priority for the military to supply the Nukes.lincolnmania wrote: ↑Sat. Mar. 16, 2019 8:14 pm. if it happens here we are gonna have nuke plants melting down once the diesel fuel runs out.
And if that didn't work, there are steam turbine driven pumps installed that provide cooling to the plant in a blackout situation. Needs no electric to provide core cooling.
And on top of that, the national FLEX system that was put in place after Fukashima. Equipment staged in secure bunkers for beyond design basis accidents.
Could there be problems, yes. But there are measures in place, defense in depth as it's called in the nuclear world. You don't rely on one system for safety related functions.
I get computers and the like will get fried by and EMP,CapeCoaler wrote: ↑Thu. Mar. 14, 2019 10:22 amDon't even need an EMP to take the grid down...
There are about 15 critical junction/transformer locations...
Not highly secured...
Take them out and you still have all the cars and electronics...
Won't have power but the vast majority of items will still work after you apply power again...
Same with cars trucks and trains...
It wo't be an external attack but an internal one...
Think about it some...
but are pumps for gas lines and water lines affected by EMP?
Is that a industry goal? I haven't heard that before.
I thought natural gas electric generators were being installed to cover peak electrical demands. I saw the stations go in all over OH, KY, IN about a decade ago.
Was in 2014? that we had some cold days in the deep of winter, and on the news reported the electrical grid came close to having to implement rolling blackouts due to the load. The newest EPA regulations had caused so many coal fired power plants to close there were few aging plants that were left to be turned on to meet peak demands. Further talk about how the newest EPA regulations were at the time set to be incrementally ratcheted tighter and more coal plants were scheduled to close the following two years. Wonder if the Trump administration unraveling the Obama administration's EPA regulations caused coal plants to reopen?
oops nevermind I see Richard S. already made this remark
Richard S. wrote:Th aging system are the half of of it, the bigger issue is the supply because of limited infrastructure required to carry it. Back in 2014 they were at the limit. The same people advocating for closing down coal plants will be the same ones protesting new pipelines. As a temporary solution until the infrastructure catches up a lot of Northeast plants can now run on diesel.
-
- Member
- Posts: 6515
- Joined: Sun. Feb. 10, 2008 3:48 pm
- Location: Cape Cod, MA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
- Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove
The control systems for the pumps are...I get computers and the like will get fried by and EMP,
but are pumps for gas lines and water lines affected by EMP?
If it has a chip...
And it is not caged...
It is toast...
- oros35
- Member
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Mon. Feb. 02, 2009 3:47 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh Pa
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Cozeburn OWB burning Bit
- Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
It's not a goal, it is the reality if left unchecked by the regulators. For every coal and nuke that shuts down, it is being replaced by natural gas. At the rate we are going, it wont belong till we hit 80%.
- lsayre
- Member
- Posts: 21781
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
- Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Both of the Ohio nuclear plants that reside along the shore of Lake Erie are slated to be converted over to natural gas.