Coal demand for electricity during polar vortex

 
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oros35
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Post by oros35 » Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 3:07 pm

What kept the lights on during the last polar vortex?

“As of 11 a.m. Wednesday (Jan. 30),
power plants in the PJM region were
producing 127,431 megawatts of
electricity. That's about 50 percent
above normal,” wrote editorial writer
Jim Ross in a West Virginia newspaper.
“Coal-burning power plants ... were
pumping out 46,611 megawatts of
that, or about 37 percent. Natural gas
plants produced 36,369 megawatts, or
29 percent. Nuclear plants produced
34,527, or 27 percent.” Together, he
noted, coal and nuclear combined to
provide two-thirds of PJM’s power
supply.
“Renewables provided 8,357
megawatts to the grid ... seven
percent,” Ross added.
In the Midwest it was the same: “Right
now, only two major fuel sources are
reliable, dispatchable and resilient:
coal and nuclear,” reported one news
outlet in the area served by the Regional
Transmission Organization in the
Midwest, noting: “Coal is right now
providing 49 percent of the electricity.”


 
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Post by CoalJockey » Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 4:23 pm

Thanks for posting that.

Nothing like a swift kick in the rear from Mother Nature to bring everyone back to reality. Sometimes fantasy just doesn’t cut it out here in the real world.

Coal-fired power plants will remain an important part of electricity generation for many years to come. There are many cheerleaders wanting to put an end to it but talk is cheap... it takes money to buy whiskey.

 
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Post by k-2 » Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 7:33 pm

Imagine if parts of the grid would go down ,due to no back up power for high demand times like weeks of brutal cold. We would have been up the creek instead of cozy warm during that polar vortex. Gotta have power baby!. Lots of it!

 
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Post by StokerDon » Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 8:03 pm

Pretty interesting stuff. I live within a 10 mile radius of 1 nuke plant, 4 back up gas fired plants and 2 hydro plants. During cold weather, I always see the gas fired plants running full blast. That always makes me think "Does everyone else heat there home with heat-pumps and electric???"

One thing is for sure, if more people heated there homes with coal, it would relieve some of the stress on the power grid.

The more I think about this whole cycle, the crazier it sounds.

1) Burn gas, coal, atoms, or whatever in a boiler to create heat.
2) This heat creates steam.
3) This steam spins a turbine the spins a generator to create electricity.
4) This electricity is pumped through hundreds of miles of wire, switches and transformers adding up to large amounts of loss. (This is the part no one tells you)
5) The electricity arrives at your home where you promptly turn it back into heat! :annoyed: :what:

-Don

 
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 11:07 pm

And it is 100% efficient for resistance heat in our online forum Cost Calculator.

 
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Post by Dave 1234 » Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 7:26 am

Producing and consuming heat is the starting point of everything we call ''modern man''.

After years in the energy industry, I laugh at ppl like Al Gore and his followers.

There is no free lunch.

Dave

 
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Post by oros35 » Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 9:50 am

A typical power plant, coal or nuclear, is around 33-37% efficient. Let that sink in...

Some nuclear plants can get around 40% efficient. Newer plants.

Natural gas plants are around 43% efficient (These don't heat to make steam to turn the turbine thus where the efficiency comes from)

And none of this takes into consideration distribution losses to get it from the plant to your home.

That 100% efficient electric doesn't sound so good anymore huh. More like 25% all said and done.
StokerDon wrote:
Thu. Feb. 07, 2019 8:03 pm
The more I think about this whole cycle, the crazier it sounds.

1) Burn gas, coal, atoms, or whatever in a boiler to create heat.
2) This heat creates steam.
3) This steam spins a turbine the spins a generator to create electricity.
4) This electricity is pumped through hundreds of miles of wire, switches and transformers adding up to large amounts of loss. (This is the part no one tells you)
5) The electricity arrives at your home where you promptly turn it back into heat! :annoyed: :what:

-Don


 
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Post by k-2 » Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 11:02 am

The only reason the Coal produced electric is as cheap as it is ,is they get the coal(mostly silt and fines) for around $20 a ton i believe. So imagine we are paying $200 a ton and UP and still making the heat cheaper than they can sell us the electric heat made from $20 ton coal. Culm to electric burners get it even cheaper as they use slag and waste culm in a floating bed furnace. Probably between $5 and $10 a ton ,just over the cost of hauling. Although there are not many of those operating.

 
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Post by Bubbalowe » Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 11:39 am

k-2 wrote:
Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 11:02 am
The only reason the Coal produced electric is as cheap as it is ,is they get the coal(mostly silt and fines) for around $20 a ton i believe. So imagine we are paying $200 a ton and UP and still making the heat cheaper than they can sell us the electric heat made from $20 ton coal. Culm to electric burners get it even cheaper as they use slag and waste culm in a floating bed furnace. Probably between $5 and $10 a ton ,just over the cost of hauling. Although there are not many of those operating.
https://www.naes.com/locations/scrubgrass-generating-plant/

Scrubgrass Generating is local producer burning waste coal. Keeps a lot of trucks on the road around here.

 
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Post by Lightning » Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 6:14 pm

I still don't understand why some smart guy can't come up with a small scale coal fired generator so we could produce our own electricity....

 
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Post by StokerDon » Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 6:33 pm

Lightning wrote:
Fri. Feb. 08, 2019 6:14 pm
I still don't understand why some smart guy can't come up with a small scale coal fired generator so we could produce our own electricity....
You don't have to come up with the generator, just the gassification part. Here's a kid that did it on a scooter.

I don't think it will work well with Anthracite though. The more volital Bit coals should work.

-Don

 
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Post by AllanD » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 2:24 am

Great Keeping my Brother working (He's a mechanic at the Antelope mine in Wyoming)

 
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Post by BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 12:12 pm

Coal and wood gasifiers have been around almost 100

years but have not been improved on due to no demand.

I forgot the persons name but in central PA he had a truck

that ran on poplar wood chips used as fuel he also promoted

poplar scions for planting on old coal reclaim banks and row

planted to be harvested and chipped for the fuel.

I noticed a blue airline on the video which will not make the

scooter portable on the road....

https://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportat ... az81mjzraw

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1- ... PTMPjqiBeI

BigBarney

 
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Some may be surprised to know that coal can be made into even jet fuel. :)

 
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Post by BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 11, 2019 2:52 pm

That is true at about multiples of petroleum fuel...

Same with Hydrogen at 8-15 per gallon....

BigBarney


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