Return Vent G111

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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 6:18 pm

For the readers who have heard the discussions on heating systems, and return requirements, I thought I would share a modification I made this winter. The only photo I can quickly find, is this 1st one, showing the layout, and initial problem. This pic is from a few years back, and the stove and chair have changed, but the the return grate hasn't. (till now)
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Not sure if you can notice the floor return behind the blue rocker. but when sitting in that chair, a huge draft would escape to that area, with the stove running, and furnace off. I tried suggestions of insulating it better in the cellar, but the draft still existed. I've heard the best location for this type of return, would be near or under the stove, where the cold air would blend with the rising hot air. It isn't feasible for me to locate it under, or directly behind the stove, so what I did was locate it on the other side of the half wall.
The floor plenum is located between 2' on center floor rafters, with just a sheet metal pan screwed to the bottom and connecting to the furnace duct.
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Because the house is of balloon construction, (no floor sill under the half wall), I was able to cut away some material under the half wall, (to continue the floor ducting) and make a chaseway between the wall studding, which I opened on the stove side. The depth of both plenums are deceiving in the photos, but the new area is only a minimal reduction in sq/in, compared to the previous plenum.
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Because it was late, I ran out of time, (and I'm lazy), I haven't made the tin duct for it yet, so it's "temporarily" covered. (for now). it isn't pretty, but is functional.
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But I can already notice the difference. In the beginning of stove operations, my wife would sit in that chair, with a hooded sweat shirt covering her head. I would look at the living room thermometer, and it would be reading 80°! I would ask her why, and she would complain about being "cold". then I felt the draft over there and understood. It's taken a few years, but I can honestly say, I should've done it years ago. It does make a difference. :yes:

 
scalabro
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Post by scalabro » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 7:03 pm

Nice job Joe, I’ve got to do something similar this spring in my house.

 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 7:40 pm

Do it Scott. And remember, a Sawz-all is your friend. :lol:
I just noticed in my top photo, the original grate is covered with a mat and wagon. I don't know who put it there, but it should've (and usually was), been open. It was Christmas time, and I know my furnace would run....sometimes.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 11:59 pm

Joe,

Good move. By being able to draw warmer air from next to the stove you may notice that the furnace doesn't have to run as long.

I was lucky in that the two main return ducts are in the rooms with the stoves, so they don't just pull cold air they also get some warm air that preheats the return air somewhat as it also helps move stove heat from the warmest rooms to other areas and thus cuts the run time whenever the furnace kicks on.

One is in the kitchen where the range is. And like yours, it's just floor joists covered on the under side with galvanized sheet metal (1892 balloon construction).

The other floor return register is an overly large one in the living room - centrally located in the house, right at the base of the chimney for the furnace.

I put the base heater on a hearth board in front of that chimney so that the back edge of the board covers most of that return register. But, I left a 6 inch wide by three foot long gap in the register. That's more square area than the return pipe that runs from the register floor well to the furnace, so there's no restriction to air flow.

When the stove has been in base heater mode for awhile that back end of the hearth board and the wall shielding behind the stove, near floor level, is almost 100F. The colder floor level air gets drawn across that heated board before it can enter the return duct.

That helps move some of the stove heat around the house by preheating the return air.

Paul


 
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joeq
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Post by joeq » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 12:30 am

You were "lucky(?)" that the stoves were in the same room as the returns? I'm sure it was more than luck Paul. We know you planned it that way.
(Floor "joists", thanks for the correction. Rafters are on the roof) :oops:
So Paul, is your living room return anywhere near your stairwell to the up-stairs? I would think the main return would benefit from a location such as that. Mine is located on the other side of the living room, but in the original architects defense, the house didn't get an up-stairs till after WWII.(Or at least during the depression. No one knows for sure.)

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 9:18 am

I can't take credit for the way it worked out, Joe.

Long ago someone planned it. This house was owned by the local coal dealer when it was renovated and expanded into a big Victorian back in 1892. What makes stove-sense now, made sense back then. ;)

The two stair wells are near opposite sides of the living room, at the end of the living room where the #6 is sitting and the chimney is. That's dead center in the house. The door to the dinning room and the door to the front parlor are on either side of that central chimney.

When I opened up that chimney, there is an old, sealed thimble on the opposite side,.... where there had been a stove in the parlor. The chimney is big enough to handle several stoves, including the basement "octopus" furnace that used to be down there.

Paul

 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 10:05 am

Your house has "2"(?) stairwells to the up-stairs ? Must be a 3000 sq/ft home or bigger. I'll bet the banisters are gorgeous.
My little converted ranch, only has one. When I moved in, there wasn't a banister. It was open to the living room, with a handrail, (dowel) running down the end wall. Once I had the town insp. in for something else, and he commented on how "dangerous" the stairs were W/O a banister, but said I was grandfathered in. I decided to build my own, out of rough wood, and while researching designs, became fascinated with them. To me, the stair-well/banister is the focal point of the interior. I love some of the turn of the century designs. I made mine simple, (cause that's how me and this house are), and over the years have been fortunate it hasn't fallen down yet.
Christmas 2017 004.JPG
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That stairwell is the main return for the upstairs. I put a hole in my living room ceiling with a grate to the up-stairs hallway, and it does absolutely nothing for venting.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 11:58 am

joeq wrote:
Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 10:05 am
Your house has "2"(?) stairwells to the up-stairs ? Must be a 3000 sq/ft home or bigger. I'll bet the banisters are gorgeous.
My little converted ranch, only has one. When I moved in, there wasn't a banister. It was open to the living room, with a handrail, (dowel) running down the end wall. Once I had the town insp. in for something else, and he commented on how "dangerous" the stairs were W/O a banister, but said I was grandfathered in. I decided to build my own, out of rough wood, and while researching designs, became fascinated with them. To me, the stair-well/banister is the focal point of the interior. I love some of the turn of the century designs. I made mine simple, (cause that's how me and this house are), and over the years have been fortunate it hasn't fallen down yet.
Christmas 2017 004.JPG
That stairwell is the main return for the upstairs. I put a hole in my living room ceiling with a grate to the up-stairs hallway, and it does absolutely nothing for venting.

Closer to 4000sq/ft of first and second floors. If you count the walk-around attic that's another 1500-ish, but it's unfinished and not heated.

Since we only use the bed room at the back of the house, we keep that front hallway and stairway closed off, and the same for about 2/3 of the upstairs hallway, so the back stairs are the hot/cold air path for the rear part of the upstairs and there's a heat register in the kitchen ceiling near the range to let heat go up to our bed room.

Nice job on the banister and railing. I'd never have guessed it wasn't part of the original stair case. It goes very well with the trim. :yes:

Paul


 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 12:56 pm

Thanks Paul. I went through lots of country/Victorian/craftsman magazines to come up with those simple moldings and trim designs. When I moved in, the previous designs were early American "junk". My machines are relatively plain, and my experience and capabilities are also moderate at best, so Victorian styles were too elaborate for me. So I try to lean more towards the country/craftsman designs.
If you have such a big house Paul, have you ever thought of turning the up-stairs into a "Bed and Breakfast"? Make some new friends, show off your stoves, and make a little moolah on the side.

 
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Post by tcalo » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 1:02 pm

joeq wrote:
Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 12:56 pm
If you have such a big house Paul, have you ever thought of turning the up-stairs into a "Bed and Breakfast"? Make some new friends, show off your stoves, and make a little moolah on the side.
Sign me up...I could use a vacation!!!!

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 1:15 pm

Those front rooms I'm not using are my upholstery shop and storage. I don't think anyone would want to sleep on a 4x8 sewing table. :roll:

Although,.... some of the car seats can be comfy. :D

Paul

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Post by joeq » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 2:51 pm

(I've slept in worse places)

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