Coal future?

 
coalfan
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Post by coalfan » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 3:08 pm

my electric bill went up to pay for tham dam windmills where do you get your info !!!!!!!!!!!!!! solar and windmills are a dam waste !!


 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Sun. Jan. 13, 2019 9:52 pm

Its a zero fuel cost situation which like all power plants have a

long lifetime and costs are amortized in that time. All the upfront

startup cost as expenses have to be paid first, similar to having a

house built all the miscellaneous costs are always paid upfront,

its the cost to play. Look to the long term to see the final benefits.

BigBarney

 
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Post by CoalHeat » Mon. Jan. 14, 2019 10:35 pm

joeq wrote:
Sat. Jan. 12, 2019 4:36 pm
I guess you guys haven't heard, but the cats out of the bag. The new young congress woman, (AOC) from the Bronx, (fake...not really), says she would eliminate all fossil fuels in "12" years! :lol: (And they're touting her as the "future" of our country.) :baby:

Anyway, one supplier of anthy in my area, said the bulk of their coal supply goes to neighboring nurseries. for heating in the winter. Not sure how much they sell, or if it's popular in other states too.
Well AOC would be quite a discussion for Flame Suit Central, but in my opinion coal is gonna be around for quite a while. It's plentiful and economical. Numbers ($) matter despite what some of the more progressive thinkers dream up.

 
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Post by franpipeman » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 8:05 am

A coal fired electric plant is 41percent efficient. Thats enough to want another type of fuel

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 12:01 pm

franpipeman wrote:
Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 8:05 am
A coal fired electric plant is 41percent efficient. Thats enough to want another type of fuel
All in the name of the environment... NOT.

Yup, and windmills and solar have no carbon footprint either right? Manufacturing, transportation and on-site assembly... no deadly diesel fuel (GASP!) or dirty oil used in the process? Must be made right out of thin air.

No maintenance cost or decommissioning costs and the end of its life either, right?

But the fuel is FREE they say... so it has to be better, right? It’s all unicorns, rainbows, and pixie dust from here. You can’t fix that.

 
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Post by franpipeman » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 1:13 pm

the efficiency has very little to do with the environmentalism but physics, burning coal or natural gas to make steam to turn a turbine to turn a alternator to make electricity.think how many btus goes out the stack and the condenser and cooling towers.

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 1:22 pm

I understand the efficiency, not arguing that.

We all know the big push to do away with coal fired power has nothing to do with efficiency... or at least some of us understand that. For those that don’t know or those who try to convince otherwise... as I said before, you cannot fix that.


 
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Post by Bubbalowe » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 1:46 pm

franpipeman wrote:
Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 8:05 am
A coal fired electric plant is 41percent efficient. Thats enough to want another type of fuel
Yep. Guaranteed you will never see construction of another new coal fired generator based on economic markets. Don't know why everybody is crying about shift from burning coal to produce electricity, that's a good thing where I'm breathing.

 
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Post by franpipeman » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 1:50 pm

https://www.powermag.com/who-has-the-worlds-most- ... ant-fleet/

the status and ranking efficiency of power plants around the world .

 
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Post by McGiever » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 2:09 pm

It's easy to pick a side to be on...

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 2:18 pm

Bubbalowe wrote:
Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 1:46 pm
Yep. Guaranteed you will never see construction of another new coal fired generator based on economic markets. Don't know why everybody is crying about shift from burning coal to produce electricity, that's a good thing where I'm breathing.
Say the ones who have coal fired heating right under their feet in the basement. Neither one of you are going to give that up because it’s too cost effective and the steady heat is more enjoyable. Oh but that’s different though, right?

Fran has a profile photo of a backyard full of solar panels and an EFM/Fitzgibbons doing the heating. Meanwhile a few months ago there was much discussion in a previous thread between him and myself over his belief of coal being bad for the environment. Practice what you preach... you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

No hidden motives here, it’s pretty clear where I stand.

 
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Post by Bubbalowe » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 3:03 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 2:18 pm
Say the ones who have coal fired heating right under their feet in the basement. Neither one of you are going to give that up because it’s too cost effective and the steady heat is more enjoyable. Oh but that’s different though, right?

Fran has a profile photo of a backyard full of solar panels and an EFM/Fitzgibbons doing the heating. Meanwhile a few months ago there was much discussion in a previous thread between him and myself over his belief of coal being bad for the environment. Practice what you preach... you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

No hidden motives here, it’s pretty clear where I stand.
Regional use of anthracite for home heat is an exception. People cannot grasp the fundamental difference between anthracite and bituminous.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 5:25 pm

franpipeman wrote:
Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 1:13 pm
the efficiency has very little to do with the environmentalism but physics, burning coal or natural gas to make steam to turn a turbine to turn a alternator to make electricity.think how many btus goes out the stack and the condenser and cooling towers.
Your not looking at the whole picture. Doesn't matter what goes up the stack, the cost of what goes into the boiler to make those kilowatts is what has mattered. You can talk efficiency all day long, but it's the dollars and cents that decide.

Gas fired turbines are nothing new. They've been around since the earliest days of turbine use. Coal has been the fuel of choice for so long because it's cost pre BTU was much lower even factoring in BTU efficiency. Since the price of gas has come down it's starting to take over. If gas goes back up as high as it was before, don't be surprised if some coal fired plants get put back online.

When money talks, efficiency walks. It's all about fuel cost per kilowatt that the power companies can sell.

Paul

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 5:39 pm

Bubbalowe wrote:
Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 3:03 pm
Regional use of anthracite for home heat is an exception. People cannot grasp the fundamental difference between anthracite and bituminous.
No, it’s only an exception to those who like to come onto a coal board and trash coal as an industrial fuel but yet use it themselves as a residential fuel. Anthracite has been as widely used through the years as industrial fuel just as much as bituminous. Not real sure what the difference between them has to do with this discussion.

What none of you remember at the end of the day is that it is the industrial/commercial/export market that helps to keep your residential coal prices in check. Take that away and your affordable anthracite no longer looks so affordable.

Unless your under the assumption that residential coal will remain cheap if the industrial segment is eliminated. Think about that for a minute!

Have you spent any time in the industry other than feeding the Godin?

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 9:15 pm

Bubbalowe wrote:
Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 1:46 pm
Yep. Guaranteed you will never see construction of another new coal fired generator based on economic markets. Don't know why everybody is crying about shift from burning coal to produce electricity, that's a good thing where I'm breathing.
Don't be so sure.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants

Give the page graphics time to load. Upper right corner you can zoom in or out. The colored circles on the map are all coal-fired power plants all over the world. Pink are new plants, red are under construction. And that's as recent as May of last year.

If you do a web search you'll find info that shows that world-wide, coal-fired power production has increased almost ten fold since back in 2000. Guess which country is suppling a lot of that coal ?

Paul


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