Coal future?

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Thu. Jan. 17, 2019 9:29 pm

It all boils down to cost per KwHR and now solar and wind are replacing all

fossil fuels .They thought that Natgas would be the fuel of choice but at a

low price currently it is still not competitive.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/energy/2018/ ... 485210002/

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/6-ch ... eat-to-gas

Google to buid solar for all power..... Here's the future>>>>

https://www.blog.google/outreach-initiatives/sust ... d-alabama/

BigBarney


 
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Post by LehighanthraciteMatt » Fri. Jan. 18, 2019 7:33 am

The thing is when the government was attacking coal, Anthracite was never really in danger. Anthracite is such a small amount of the coal mined it isn't really differentiated by politicians. The thing I saw the most of when the political rhetoric was taking place as people were afraid to switch to coal because they thought it would be outlawed. Also, Anthracite played a very minor part in power generation.

 
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Post by LehighanthraciteMatt » Fri. Jan. 18, 2019 10:23 am

franpipeman wrote:
Tue. Jan. 15, 2019 8:05 am
A coal fired electric plant is 41percent efficient. Thats enough to want another type of fuel
https://debunkhouse.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/how- ... d-turbine/

Read this....

 
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BigBarney
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Post by BigBarney » Fri. Jan. 18, 2019 11:05 am

Anthracite coal is a unique product that is especially good for

home heating and is completely different than its bituminous

cousin. Bit coal is best for power plants and for coke for steel

production and it's byproducts of coal tar has many other uses.

Coal tar uses...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_tar

Anthracite ,since it is mostly carbon , is also used in steel production

but I think coke is still preferred . The attack on coal is mainly the problem

of incomplete combustion and the release of chemical compounds

that are harmful to mankind. Also the disposal of large quantities of

ash which also hold a lot of heavy metals , once it is wetted in the

smoke cleaning process you have a slurry that is hard to dispose of ,

and has to dewatered and landfilled, but at a large cost. All of this

extra handling adds a lot of cost and makes its energy too expensive.

BigBarney

 
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Post by Rufcar » Thu. Jan. 24, 2019 12:37 pm

I am new here so be gentle! I live at the southern most point of the anthracite region.Mt Harmon and Mr Kimmel are both personnel friends. Most do not know kimmel coal field for bankruptcy last fall. A large energy company nearby that burns culm and coal owned them a bundle and they too filed bankruptcy, creating a rolling effect to many local miners. They do have a new owner and will continue under new management. Mr Harmon went through the same thing several years ago and has been there main researcher ever since as an employee. There are still a few deep mines near me. Id say maybe 50 men total still work deep mines (best coal). All the rest 15-40 mi away do strip mine. Recently I had to wait 2 weeks to get a full 6 ton load as the local mine didnt have any to sell. Locally there is more demand they supply! I grew up in West Hazleton surrounded by coal. We owned a bar that was always full of miners, until hurricane hazle closed up most of the deep mines in 53. I moved away in 73 and back home was never the same. Other than the Stockton area there is no coal mined in Hazleton. My Great Grandmother came to the US in 1887 by herself with 4 kids and they lived in Stockton, my GF and family worked those mines. My dad was coal hauler before I was even born. I have never heated a home with anything other than coal. I currently burn 18 tons every year for the past 40 odd years and am very concerned about the anthracite supply. 2 days ago, coal was not available again. I saw this happening many years ago and expanded my coal bin to 12 tons so I could always have much on hand and plan my orders around shortages.
I talk up coal daily and I always add it any "green" conversations saying, anthracite is NOT bituminous and burns a lot cleaner and should not be considered in any anti coal discussion. I am not sure where it will all end as no one does but, with me I have no other options with 1 pipe steam. Oil just makes steam too fast, it wet and extremely costly as I used burn over 5,000 gal. same with all the other options. As I get any news I will post on line since being in the middle of the action I hear a lot.

 
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Post by joeq » Thu. Jan. 24, 2019 12:56 pm

Glad you're here to keep us informed Rufcar. We would like to see your coal burners, and why you go through 18 tons a year. Does your home have windows? a roof? ;)
wow, I just looked up your previous posts. What a beautiful Victorian you have. :yes:

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 6:43 am

Matt, thanks for posting this. It is exactly what I have been trying to say every time this comes up but could not find anything to back it up. If the “greenies” in the mainstream media were interested in facts and balanced reporting instead of pushing narratives and telling you what you “should” believe, we would see just how misinformed we really are.

When it comes down to manufacture, transport, and erection, wind and solar are as dirty as any other form of power. Trouble is, very few will ever know.


 
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Post by lsayre » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 7:02 am

Excellent! Thanks Matt!!!

 
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Post by McGiever » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 11:38 am

Nothing verified there...who is the best fibber???

I am no Greenie, but I did work construction for 45 years...a good part of that I worked building, among many other projects, 2 Nukes and 3 coal units all totaling 5000 MW (megawatts) and those listed steel and concrete numbers are absurd...someone will have to do a lot better calculation than what's listed there. I'm calling "BULLSHIP" Nice Try!

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 12:46 pm

McGiever wrote:
Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 11:38 am
Nothing verified there...who is the best fibber???

I am no Greenie, but I did work construction for 45 years...a good part of that I worked building, among many other projects, 2 Nukes and 3 coal units all totaling 5000 MW (megawatts) and those listed steel and concrete numbers are absurd...someone will have to do a lot better calculation than what's listed there. I'm calling "BULLSHIP" Nice Try!
With all due respect MG... I agree there is much room for Bullship, but then just take out the word coal and insert diesel fuel and/or other fossil fuel of choice that may not be accounted for in that’s article.

Fifteen miles of roadway and buried electric cable we installed just between Blue Knob and Lilly alone and it took 3 years to do it. My other thought is that tree chippers, dump trucks, dozers, concrete mixers, track-hoes, cranes, and utility vehicles don’t run on a nice cool breeze. This doesn’t include preparation or consumption of petroleum products involved to crush stone, produce blades, etc.

I don’t know it all nor do I wish to... but there is a much larger picture being ignored in the renewable energy argument. A picture that no one WANTS to take the time to look at. I stand by my claim that as of the present time, renewables at the moment BEGIN their life with as much...or more pollution than their fossil-burning counterparts.

I’ve taken part in hauling stone into 4 different wind farms plus the factory to build the blades and there was enough diesel fuel burnt to provide all of CoalPail with #2 HO for the next decade. And that was just the equipment parked running at idle all day. I for one, perhaps the only one, was trying to figure out just what in the hell they thought they were “saving”.

 
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Post by McGiever » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 1:06 pm

Sure, what we see with our own eyes makes a lasting impression.
But it sure is a big ole world out there, ya know!

 
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Post by warminmn » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 1:52 pm

Rufcar wrote:
Thu. Jan. 24, 2019 12:37 pm
I am new here so be gentle! I live at the southern most point of the anthracite region.Mt Harmon and Mr Kimmel are both personnel friends. Most do not know kimmel coal field for bankruptcy last fall. A large energy company nearby that burns culm and coal owned them a bundle and they too filed bankruptcy, creating a rolling effect to many local miners. They do have a new owner and will continue under new management. Mr Harmon went through the same thing several years ago and has been there main researcher ever since as an employee. There are still a few deep mines near me. Id say maybe 50 men total still work deep mines (best coal). All the rest 15-40 mi away do strip mine. Recently I had to wait 2 weeks to get a full 6 ton load as the local mine didnt have any to sell. Locally there is more demand they supply! I grew up in West Hazleton surrounded by coal. We owned a bar that was always full of miners, until hurricane hazle closed up most of the deep mines in 53. I moved away in 73 and back home was never the same. Other than the Stockton area there is no coal mined in Hazleton. My Great Grandmother came to the US in 1887 by herself with 4 kids and they lived in Stockton, my GF and family worked those mines. My dad was coal hauler before I was even born. I have never heated a home with anything other than coal. I currently burn 18 tons every year for the past 40 odd years and am very concerned about the anthracite supply. 2 days ago, coal was not available again. I saw this happening many years ago and expanded my coal bin to 12 tons so I could always have much on hand and plan my orders around shortages.
I talk up coal daily and I always add it any "green" conversations saying, anthracite is NOT bituminous and burns a lot cleaner and should not be considered in any anti coal discussion. I am not sure where it will all end as no one does but, with me I have no other options with 1 pipe steam. Oil just makes steam too fast, it wet and extremely costly as I used burn over 5,000 gal. same with all the other options. As I get any news I will post on line since being in the middle of the action I hear a lot.
Nice short story/post. I enjoyed it. Thanks!

 
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Post by Bubbalowe » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 2:31 pm

CoalJockey wrote:
Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 12:46 pm
With all due respect MG... I agree there is much room for Bullship, but then just take out the word coal and insert diesel fuel and/or other fossil fuel of choice that may not be accounted for in that’s article.

Fifteen miles of roadway and buried electric cable we installed just between Blue Knob and Lilly alone and it took 3 years to do it. My other thought is that tree chippers, dump trucks, dozers, concrete mixers, track-hoes, cranes, and utility vehicles don’t run on a nice cool breeze. This doesn’t include preparation or consumption of petroleum products involved to crush stone, produce blades, etc.

I don’t know it all nor do I wish to... but there is a much larger picture being ignored in the renewable energy argument. A picture that no one WANTS to take the time to look at. I stand by my claim that as of the present time, renewables at the moment BEGIN their life with as much...or more pollution than their fossil-burning counterparts.

I’ve taken part in hauling stone into 4 different wind farms plus the factory to build the blades and there was enough diesel fuel burnt to provide all of CoalPail with #2 HO for the next decade. And that was just the equipment parked running at idle all day. I for one, perhaps the only one, was trying to figure out just what in the hell they thought they were “saving”.
jobs

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 5:20 pm

Bubbalowe wrote:
Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 2:31 pm
jobs
https://www.jari.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Gamesa.pdf

Yeah that lasted real long too, the residents of Cambria County are still holding onto their ankles yet today. However Bubba, if you want a good deal on a huge factory building just off route 22 it can be yours. That was about 13 years ago the factory was built and they produced blades there for perhaps 5 years. The building has been closed and for sale ever since. What a ripoff.

I drive right past the front door about 6 times a day in the Summertime — and right through the gate and onto the scale at the power plant next door.

Jobs? Lasted about as long as a mid-Summers breeze.

 
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Post by Rufcar » Fri. Jan. 25, 2019 5:50 pm

Joining this conversation on wind and coal I read this comment " Concrete reinforcement rebar is typically >70% recycled material and often high recycled content is used in the primary column supports (why not?) making conversion costs even lower. Sounds like someone is a HUGE coal fan and too stupid to realize the answer has been blowing in the wind in Germany for quite a long time and he is facing upwind to history. Once initial payback for a farm is reached, the only high dollar repair/maintenance required is routine blade replacement (they last up to 15 years or more) and transmission rebuilds (that is a lot of torque to handle in all that ENERGY). Feel free to read many, many more technical briefs on the cost of wind – it is crazy cheap and doesn’t continuously pollute like coal does. This year, ~1.5M Chinese will die from respiratory ailments related to pollution, most of which is caused by emissions of coal fired power plants. Imagine the population of Detroit and its suburbs dying between now and May 2019 – that is the scale of damage caused by coal there. Feel free to read the plethora of technical and academic papers on this subject. You have much to learn." end quote.
1st the cost of building turbines for wind is over 7 million dollars each! I do not have the actual numbers or references but I read were there is zero net return. WHY because you will never generate enough "Free" power in the life of a Turbine to pay for it. Plus NO ON talks about the transmission fluid in those huge gear boxes! Why? Because NONE of the fluid works! They have not found one single gear oil that holds up to those extreme forces! Ever notice how often some are always NOT running? TOO HOT! If you factor in the "Dirty" coal costs vs green return you are even further behind. I call off this BS The "Feeling Good" approach. You tell everyone how great it is, you get political backing, huge tax deductions and huge investor support and you get that "feeling good" effect but, in reality only the investors (as usual) do well do to those huge tax deductions on "green" investments.
Being in the building restoration business over 45 years I learned a lot about investor payback. The bulk is pure 100% BS. Recent testing has shown for instance that a good old, well fit, well maintained, single glass wood window works as well as a double pan window in savings! Plus , maintained properly will last centuries vs 8- 12 year life of a vinyl double pane. window. I have over 60 in my home and they are all over 115 years old! Enough said for today!


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