Georgia Ruling Could Impact Future Coal Plants

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/business/01coal ... ei=5087%0A

A judge in Georgia has thrown out an air pollution permit for a new coal-fired power plant because the permit did not set limits on carbon dioxide emissions.

Both opponents of coal use and the company that wants to build the plant said it was the first time a court decision had linked carbon dioxide to an air pollution permit.

The decision’s broader legal impact was not clear, either for the plant, proposed to be built near Blakely, in Early County, Ga., or for others outside Georgia, but it signaled that builders of coal plants would face continued difficulties in the court system as well as with elected officials in many states.

First they make building nuclear power plants difficult now coal fired plants. What's next we all get to use candles for light?

It's the environmentalists and others leading the charge, the energy issue we have now wouldn't be nearly as bad if they had been building both nuclear power plants and coal plants in recent decades. I know one thing, if things continue at the current pace we are going to be faced with some major issues in the coming decades such as not enough power, very expensive green power or both. It's about time someone in Washington opened their eyes and faced reality instead of trying to pander to the environmentalist crowd.

Read the book, "The Bottomless Well", by Peter Huber & Mark Mills for a history of energy usage, what the environmentalists have wrong and what we should be doing. Bottom line is we will never run out of energy (as long as the sun shines), energy conservation is not the solution and some day even the environmentalists will love nuclear generated electricity. Energy costs will be significantly greater in the future.

I'll disagree that energy cost "have" to be significantly higher in the long term future. With the right investments in reliable renewable energy they can be significantly reduced IMO. Solar is only mionr player IMO as he cells required at this point in time are very expensive to make and are not very efficient. Wind and hydro plants in the worlds oceans are the future IMO.

There's other things to consider too, the earths crust itself could provide both cooling and heating to the extreme. Some of the deepest mines in the world for example have temperatures in excess of 120 degrees and mines that are close to the surface have constant temperatures of around 50 degrees. Either could provide efficient energy for heating or cooling.

The issue is that any method like that is going to require decades of development. Going head long into renewable energy and not doing it in slow steps is going to be disastrous for the U.S.'s economy. We have ever increasing power needs and that is not going to change, if the renewable energy push fails in ten to twenty years from now there is going to be some serious energy issues in this country that is going to make the present day look like a cake walk.

Oil, gas & coal use up our natural resources and are non renewable. Dams bother the fish. Nuclear is too dangerous. Windmills are unsightly and noisy. Solar is too expensive. We want our electricity to come from a magic shoebox and that box cannot be in our backyard. Unplug your refrigerator and complain all you want!

They should pass a law that says every state must build or allow to be built, two nuclear power plants or the equivalent within 10 years or loose all federal dollars.

Richard, you need to read the book. It's full of well researched, referenced facts, that are hard to refute. You are welcome to your opinion but where is this lower cost energy going to come from? All the cheap hydroelectric dam sites in North America have dams on them. Nuclear plants are very expensive and coal to syngas will have similar or greater costs. Canadian tar sands are a possibility but it also takes a lot of capital to process it into oil. Growing crops for liquid fuel just takes to much land area and is a marginal gain in energy produced for energy needed in it's production. It's going to cost more. Period.

I'm considering the long term scenario like 40 years from now when green energy will be the norm and not the exception. The few things I mentioned are inexhaustible sources of energy, we just need to harness it. Certainly the investment required is an enormous undertaking but you can equate it to buying a coal boiler. the initial cost is very high but its all gravy after that.

It's just not true that we haven't faced reality, government included. Engineers have know reality since we did our first physics experiment. There are large numbers of engineers and scientists in government that know reality. It's the politicians that pander to an uninformed electorate, that want a sound bit answer to everything.

Coal to syngas plants have be operational in the US for sometime. The best known and studied is the Polk Power Station in FL. It's been funded heavily by government and industry as a development test bed, but is power station size. It's not quite ready for prime time yet. It's operational reliability is too low, 95% or so depending on how you count. It's also very capital expensive. For a video report on the 290-megawatt plant go to:

http://www.ieee.org/portal/site/ieeetv/menuitem.6 ... -416001754

There will an info commercial on the IEEE, the professional electrical engineering society. Let it finish and next will be the Polk video. More electricity has been produced by this plant than any sysgas plant in the world. It went operational in 1996. It's just not true that we are just getting started.

A block diagram is here:
**Broken Link(s) Removed**The full report on the plant is here:
**Broken Link(s) Removed**This 260 page report will give you more information than you will ever want to know. It's an engineer's report full of facts, warts and all. For those in the Pottsville, PA that oppose the syngas plant that's proposed there by one of Mr. Rich's companies here's a document to educate yourself.

Scroll down to pdf page 181 using 150% magnification to read the future outlook for the plant. The big challenge besides cost will be the sequestering of CO2.

Yanche wrote:It's the politicians that pander to an uninformed electorate, that want a sound bit answer to everything.

Yes exactly, but by doing that they are not facing reality. It's very easy to be the "environmentalist" politician because everyone wants to protect the environment but if we keep going down this road we are on there is going to be a major crisis on our hands. They haven't built a nuke plant in decades, coal plants are being fought at every corner and in the meantime the ability to produce enough energy is going the way of the dodo bird.

For example, the fact this country hasn't built a refinery in decades is disturbing. Not only has it been linked to increased fuel prices but It's at the point now where if there is major failure of one the larger refineries there is nothing to take up the slack. Can you say instant gas shortage? The same thing is going to happen with electricity if we continue as we are.

The refining costs are about $20-25 per barrel... before Katrina, it was about $5...This is called the 'crack spread'. I got this is from my companies 'Fuel Sense' newsletter. I don't question the info, but it may be erroneous.. I do know that the 'crack spread' was about $80/barrel right after Katrina, and the refineries were all damaged and shut down..

There is no doubt that out country needs an all encompasing energy policy.. and spend the money to generate electricity without burning precious fossel fuels....

And personally,, to hell with the CO2 worries.. we have imediate survival issues..We need to hunker down and be prepared for some very serious economic, and life changing shifts in the way we live and work. The whole world economy is going to go to hell when people in our country can't afford to drive to work, or to heat their homes. There will be a mass exodus to 'work camps',, places where the bread-winner in a family goes to camp out within walking or public transportation distance of their job... I think we will see RV;s in business parking lots. full of Business men, who can't afford $10/gallon gas except once a week to get home on the weekends.. It's gonna get really ugly.. My job will in all likelyhood go away.. who can afford a $2000 ticket to fly from NYC to Ft. Lauderdale?? or $8,000 from NYC to LAX??

If the planet decides to belch and have a volcanic erruption, we would have a significant cool-down for several years... the layer of ash in the atmosphere blocks the sunlight..we could be praying for some global warming... CO2 is an issue,, but I'm concerned much more about the short term issue of where will electricity come from?? Sunlight?? not reliable enough in my state,, Wind,, same issue.. Wood?? finite supplies, and not enough...Nuclear is the way... or short term Coal with CO2 ignored. We need to survive..

Greg L