Pellets vs Coal

 
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Post by joeq » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 11:20 am

Yesterday at Thanksgiving gatherings, it was apparent to me the "inadequacies" of pellet heat, as compared to coal. I wish I had a photo of the event, but I don't, so you'll have to visualize this. Sorry.
My in-laws have a beautiful, "huge", (as Trump would say :lol: ) field stone fireplace in their great room, with a raised hearth. The structure must be 10' wide, growing 12-14' up the middle of the gabled end wall to a cathedral ceiling. Beautiful stone work. In the FP opening, it is stuffed with a ...you guessed it, a pellet stove. I've never tried to voice my opinion, cause I guess a few of them like it, for the supplemental heat.
Anyway, because my wifes brother-in-law likes to save money, by keeping their oil furnace on low, (58°?), people who were thin skinned were constantly migrating over to the frt of the pellet stove, where the blower was forcing out some heat. Most people had their coats on, or at least sweaters.

There I was sitting on the sofa, in the great room, near the FP, mingling with the families. So my wifes nieces, (approx. 20 yrs of age, and dressed in pull over sweaters), decided to sit in frt of the pellet stove, with one, braiding her sisters hair. Now picture this. One girl was sitting on the floor, in frt of the stove, while her sister sat "directly" behind her, sitting on the hearth, with her back to the glass stove door, where the mech. auger flame was burning pellets. I mean literally, her back against the glass door, while the stove was operating. And she sat there, for a good 10 mins. working on her sisters head. I was mesmerized, and watched in aw.
I was reminded of the time, I hung my damp sweatshirt, (from outside snow shoveling) on top of my Surdiac stove, and placed the water soaked lower section of the shirt right in frt of the glass door. With in 5 mins, the shirt went up in flames, and I had to toss it out onto my frt walkway, to let the flames go out. When I checked that door opening temp. with my IR gun, I found it to be over 500°!
Yet there was this girl, frilling away doing some braiding, W/O so much as a "man this thing is hot". After a good 10 mins of watching this, I asked her, "Isn't it hot, where you're sitting?", in which she replied, "yeah, it's a little warm, but not too bad".
If that isn't a testimony of the BTU differences between coal and pellets, I don't know what is. I would like to invite them over, to sit against my G111 whilst the stove coal is producing heat, but I don't wanna be responsible for purchasing new garments. I don't know if any members have had any similar experiences, but it was the 1st time for me to see this comparison.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. :)


 
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Post by CoalJockey » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 1:07 pm

I just don’t get it. Ignorance seems to bliss with those pellets. I have a neighbor that lives right beside our coal yard and even knows the BTU difference but still burns tons of pellets every year. I was at the Orange store for some home improvement stuff last week and the pellets are $10 more a ton than I’m selling hard coal for.

Again, I just don’t get it.

 
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 1:17 pm

To each their own. A friend of mine has a pellet boiler, which had a stoker mechanism similar to come coal boilers. He uses it to heat a 100+ year old house with lots of cast iron radiators, and produces DHW for a family of 4. Local hardware store sets the pallets of bagged pellets in his garage and he thinks it is easy Street compared to firewood.

 
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Post by joeq » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 2:18 pm

Well Rob, compared to wood, I guess bagged pellets delivered to his garage is easier than splitting wood. And I can see the benefits of pellets of not having as much ash to discard, compared to coal. But when you're talking about heating an old drafty house, that still employs it's original radiators, I would think the added benefits the BTUs of coal provide, would far out weigh the inconvenience of dumping a bit more ash. I've heard those old steam radiators put out a phenomenal amount of "comfortable" heat. All you need is the floor space to support them.

 
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Post by tcalo » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 2:49 pm

Is the pellet stove for heat or aesthetics? Although I’ve never operated a pellet stove, I can see them being a bit easier to use and possibly cleaner. The view of the fire is also a nice benefit. More moving parts = more problems. Kiss...get an antique coal stove. As far as heat, coal can’t be beat!!!

 
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Post by CoalJockey » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 3:19 pm

tcalo wrote:
Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 2:49 pm
Is the pellet stove for heat or aesthetics? Although I’ve never operated a pellet stove, I can see them being a bit easier to use and possibly cleaner. The view of the fire is also a nice benefit. More moving parts = more problems. Kiss...get an antique coal stove. As far as heat, coal can’t be beat!!!
Many of the stoker style coal stoves have a fire-view door too though. I often wondered if an EFM pot would burn pellets just for the hell of it... I’ve seen pellet and corn stoves at farm trade shows that utilize an underfed pot.

The only pellet stove that I ever spent much time around is at our local barbershop and I was never very impressed with it.

 
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Post by scalabro » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 3:59 pm

A friend of mine had a pellet stove in his house. It sounded and felt like standing in front of a hairdryer :D


 
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Post by Rob R. » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 4:16 pm

joeq wrote:
Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 2:18 pm
Well Rob, compared to wood, I guess bagged pellets delivered to his garage is easier than splitting wood. And I can see the benefits of pellets of not having as much ash to discard, compared to coal. But when you're talking about heating an old drafty house, that still employs it's original radiators, I would think the added benefits the BTUs of coal provide, would far out weigh the inconvenience of dumping a bit more ash. I've heard those old steam radiators put out a phenomenal amount of "comfortable" heat. All you need is the floor space to support them.
I'm with you, but very few people can see that way. Pellets are much more readily available in my area, produce a lot less ash, and people don't feel guilty about burning them. I would not want one of those noisy pellet stoves in my living room blowing hot air, but I also feel the same way about coal stoker stoves. For me it is either hand fired space heaters, or stoker fired central heat.

 
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Post by joeq » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 5:14 pm

tcalo wrote:
Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 2:49 pm
Is the pellet stove for heat or aesthetics? Although I’ve never operated a pellet stove, I can see them being a bit easier to use and possibly cleaner. The view of the fire is also a nice benefit. More moving parts = more problems. Kiss...get an antique coal stove. As far as heat, coal can’t be beat!!!
If you're talking about my in-laws installation Tom, I don't believe it's a cosmetic appliance. Think about this.
The house is a beautiful 3000 sq/ft cape, with dog house dormers, and a 3 car attached garage, built in pool, and the great room overlooks this with tall windows to both sides of the FP. The room is about 600 sq/ft, with 2 couches facing each other, in the middle of the room, and perpendicular to the end wall which houses this enormous fireplace, and hearth.
Inside this over sized FP opening, is a black tin plate which engulfs this smaller pellet stove.
But yes, you can see the 6" auger in the middle back of the stove, thru the glass door, burning this little air supplied flame. And it most likely will supply more heat, than a bunch of logs burning.
But for me, (and this is just my opinion), with the income derived from the family living in this home, I would rather have one of the two following scenarios to experience.
Either just turn up the oil fired furnace a few more degrees to achieve the desired comfort level, (The house is relatively modern, with adequate insulation) while having a beautiful raging wood fire in the fireplace, for aesthetics when needed.
Or, if a little more savings is the priority, a nice looking coal insert would provide the needed BTUs, yet still fulfill an attractive setting.
But hey, that's just me.

 
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Post by tcalo » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 5:20 pm

A baltimore heater would fit the bill.

 
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 6:06 pm

Wood ash is not black and "dirty" like coal. Sulfur smell, black dust, rust stains, black lung, dark sooty skies.

Unfortunately, that is the media-inspired impression of coal plants, coal heat, steel mills, etc.

Shame coal doesn't have the option of hopper or auger feed, steady fire that doesn't need constant tending, draft adjustments and extended refill and ash change interval. Too bad there isn't a smokeless and odorless option with very little dust.

If only there was a way to distribute heat through a home without blowing around messy black dust and smoke through the heat ducts.

Sure would be nice if there was a beneficial use for coal ashes in the winter, like ice traction for driveways.

Besides, it's the trouble of going out back and digging it up and hauling it into the basement with mules and wagons that turns everyone off.

It is much better to have oil or gas heat because you can just turn a thermostat and it gets warmer or cooler any time you like.

And we all know how the outdoor wood boilers can help make domestic hot water. Too bad you can't do that with coal.

For all these reasons, there will likely be sufficient coal for we poor soul who choose to "suffer" through the inconvenience and uncomfortable world of coal heat ;) :yes:

 
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Post by joeq » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 6:16 pm

I think we can dispute most, if not all of those excuses above. But many just don't care, or won't listen.

 
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Post by Riddlerlloyd » Fri. Nov. 23, 2018 11:04 pm

I actually ran a Harman Acentra pellet stove for a few seasons in my old house...averaged about 60lbs a day in a 1700sqft raised ranch. I emptied the ash pan once per ton. It did most of the heating load for the house as long as the electricity was on. The house was insulated, after I redid it, and was mostly comfortable throughout. The main downside was, as mentioned, the fan. I turned up the tv and sat within 10 feet of the stove and I was ok. The big issue was if I worked (was away from the house) more than 14 hours at a stretch as the hopper would be empty. The autolight was nice, when it worked, to get it going again. I typically used 3-4 tons per year. The only thing I found after about 3 years was the cost for a ton of pellets (180-220 a ton if I got them in July) plus the electricity to run the stove added up to about the same cost of my monthly electric bill if I just used the electric heat.

As I now have coal you know what I prefer. I would not go back to a pellet stove, although if it’s just suplimental in one ‘great’ room I can see the appeal. I now heat a house from the 1860’s that’s 1000 more sq ft to a more comfortable temp, in silence, with the same tonnage of coal at the same price or less per ton....I do have to spend 5 min a day taking ashes out though......and put the trash bag on the curb once per week....coal wins for me

 
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Post by Freddy » Sat. Nov. 24, 2018 5:55 am

I haven't looked lately, or done the math, but at one point coal and pellets were about the same cost per bag, and coal had almost exactly twice the BTU's per bag. Still close to true?

 
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Post by lsayre » Sat. Nov. 24, 2018 6:48 am

The best I can tell is that pellets have right close to 64% of the BTU's per pound of anthracite. 1.563 lbs. of pellets = 1 lb. of anthracite

This is based on 7,850 BTU's/Lb. for pellets, and 12,250 BTU's/Lb. for anthracite.

Around here, pellets are now somewhat less expensive than anthracite on a BTU's per Dollar basis.

Pellets have around 0.75% ash by weight. Anthracite has around 15% ash by weight.


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