Common coal and coal appliance misnomers we must learn to forget
- lsayre
- Member
- Posts: 21781
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
- Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
List them here. I'll toss a couple out to get the ball rolling:
1) With hydronic heat many people falsely presume that if the hot water flow through a radiator or baseboard is too fast there will not be enough time permitted for the heat within the water to escape via way of said radiator and thereby heat the house.
2) Some people falsely believe that more hard earned heat is sucked out of the house through a barometric damper than through a coal heating appliance without one.
1) With hydronic heat many people falsely presume that if the hot water flow through a radiator or baseboard is too fast there will not be enough time permitted for the heat within the water to escape via way of said radiator and thereby heat the house.
2) Some people falsely believe that more hard earned heat is sucked out of the house through a barometric damper than through a coal heating appliance without one.
- lsayre
- Member
- Posts: 21781
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Ohio
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
- Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
- Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75
Another common misnomer is the presumption that anthracite has 13,000 to more than 15,000 BTU's per pound.
Figures within the above ranges are often quoted quoted for coal that has been lab dried and/or for coal minus ash. If you see BTU figures reported on a DAF (dry and ash free) basis, they will be artificially high in BTU's vs. real world coal, which contains about 5% to 6% water, and perhaps 10% to 15% ash.
What you need to look for with regard to BTU's is the "As Delivered" basis. On an "as delivered" basis anthracite typically has closer to around 12,250 BTU's/Lb.
Figures within the above ranges are often quoted quoted for coal that has been lab dried and/or for coal minus ash. If you see BTU figures reported on a DAF (dry and ash free) basis, they will be artificially high in BTU's vs. real world coal, which contains about 5% to 6% water, and perhaps 10% to 15% ash.
What you need to look for with regard to BTU's is the "As Delivered" basis. On an "as delivered" basis anthracite typically has closer to around 12,250 BTU's/Lb.
- Sunny Boy
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- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Hot air rises.
That's like saying boats rise.
Air at any temp has mass, therefore it is always subject to the pull of gravity and can not rise on it's own.
Hot air is thinner and lighter than cold air, so hot air is pushed up by the heavier cold air sinking under it. Same as a boat would be lifted up and float on water because it is lighter than the water it displaces.
Paul
That's like saying boats rise.
Air at any temp has mass, therefore it is always subject to the pull of gravity and can not rise on it's own.
Hot air is thinner and lighter than cold air, so hot air is pushed up by the heavier cold air sinking under it. Same as a boat would be lifted up and float on water because it is lighter than the water it displaces.
Paul
- freetown fred
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- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut
Ohhhhh, that's what a misnomer is!!! LOL
- Rob R.
- Site Moderator
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- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
Off the top of my head I can think of the following:
- You need a minimum of $10,000 in order to install a coal boiler. Double if you want an EFM.
- All stokers are loud, complicated, and break all the time
- Axeman Anderson and Coal Gun boilers never have outfires.
- You can size your new heating appliance based only on the size of the old one.
- If you use a single chimney for two appliances, your house will burn down and the insurance won't cover it.
- Extra insulation and air sealing efforts don't pay off
- Lightning
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 14669
- Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: Olean, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
- Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite
This is HUGE. Once this dynamic is thoroughly understood things make a lot more sense. Furthermore, speculations on air movement whether it be on a grand scale such as the atmosphere or on a tiny scale such as in our stoves and chimneys are much more accurate especially understanding the below.Sunny Boy wrote: ↑Wed. Oct. 24, 2018 6:43 pmHot air rises.
That's like saying boats rise.
Air at any temp has mass, therefore it is always subject to the pull of gravity and can not rise on it's own.
Hot air is thinner and lighter than cold air, so hot air is pushed up by the heavier cold air sinking under it. Same as a boat would be lifted up and float on water because it is lighter than the water it displaces.
Paul
Another misnomer - pressure. Gases (air) can not suck. A chimney does not pull. What's really happening is pressure moves from high to low. It is pushed, not pulled. What is interesting about this is that you can predict air movement characteristics. For example, combustion air under the grates does not enter the stove and immediately make a turn upward as if it was pulled. If that was true, we would need an orifice to feed combustion air evenly the full length of the grate, otherwise the front half of our fuel bed would burn up first. Obviously we don't see that happen (unless other circumstances prevail like ash bound in the back). What we do see happen is an even uniform burning of the entire fuel bed. This is because air is pushed inside under the grates first. Once pressure under the grates overcomes the pressure above the fuel bed then and only then will it move upward evenly distributing combustion air across the full length of the fuel bed. This was a hard concept for me to grasp but once understood thoroughly it answers a lot of questions about how stoves, chimneys, stack effect in house, cold air infiltration, warm air exfiltration and many others work.
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25755
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
Correct.
Carburetor engineers don't like to use the term vacuum to describe how a carburetor functions. They call it pressure drop.
But, you'll have a tough time getting some mechanics to believe that vacuum does not make a carburetor and an internal combustion engine run. It really sucks.
Paul
Carburetor engineers don't like to use the term vacuum to describe how a carburetor functions. They call it pressure drop.
But, you'll have a tough time getting some mechanics to believe that vacuum does not make a carburetor and an internal combustion engine run. It really sucks.
Paul
Last edited by Sunny Boy on Wed. Oct. 24, 2018 8:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- Location: Western Massachusetts
- Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14, Abendroth Bros "Record 40"
- Coal Size/Type: Stove / Anthracite.
- Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.
Baro dampers are better than MPD’s.
MPD’s are better than Baro dampers.
Hahahahaha
Sorry..... I had to!!!
MPD’s are better than Baro dampers.
Hahahahaha
Sorry..... I had to!!!
- Sunny Boy
- Member
- Posts: 25755
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: Central NY
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
- Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
- Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
- Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace
- McGiever
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- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
All water in bagged coal gets added into the bags at the bagging plant during the bagging operation.
If you hire good electricians to wire your boiler they will screw you still even years later.
If you hire good electricians to wire your boiler they will screw you still even years later.
- warminmn
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- Location: Land of 11,842 lakes
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Riteway 37
- Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite, lignite
- Other Heating: Wood and wear a wool shirt
If I put a hand fed stove in my rock walled basement all the heat will naturally go up into my house
If I buy bagged coal as I need it in the winter, I know it will be dry and I can dump it right into my stove. (I always tire of hearing about wet coal all winter long, my coal pet peeve)
If I buy bagged coal as I need it in the winter, I know it will be dry and I can dump it right into my stove. (I always tire of hearing about wet coal all winter long, my coal pet peeve)
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
- freetown fred
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- Location: Freetown,NY 13803
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut