COAL Cogeneration

jrv8984
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Post By: jrv8984 » Sun. Sep. 16, 2018 7:59 pm

Any body give any thought to figuring out how to create electricity with their coal boilers, etc?
There are some creative steam power systems being created in India, saw some that look like a Lister engine.
I would love to get some electricity out of heating with coal, even if it was only enough to power the controls, auger and circulators on the Coal Gun. (power outages wouldn't be an issue)


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Post By: VigIIPeaBurner » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 9:07 pm

There is an ongoing thread on this topic. Please follow this link: Cogeneration

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Post By: lsayre » Mon. Sep. 17, 2018 9:41 pm

It would require a steam boiler, and not one merely running at atmospheric pressure.

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Post By: Richard S. » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 7:44 am

Setting aside the issues and costs of actually generating electric this has same problem as solar and wind. To be effective and efficient you need to be able to meet your demands as they vary through the day. The only way to do that is with storage or net metering.

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Post By: coaledsweat » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 8:03 am

You will need a hefty insurance policy from one of two companies and a license from the state to operate a high pressure boiler. Oh yeah, and a boiler that makes an awful lot of pressure.

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Post By: jrv8984 » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 12:57 pm

I know thermo electric generators are not that efficient, but would that matter if the only goal is to power the boiler systems (with battery storage).

Is gasifying coal to run a generator feasible, then pull the excess heat from the gasification process and from cooling the engine to provide heat?

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Post By: lsayre » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 12:59 pm

Are you OK with high pressure steam?

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Post By: NoSmoke » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 6:20 pm

lsayre wrote:
Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 12:59 pm
Are you OK with high pressure steam?
I am not.

When I worked in industrial boilers welding up the tubes, we had to watch safety videos on working around high pressure steam. They would use broom handles to check for steam leaks. The leak would be on one side of the boiler , and the steam would show up 150 feet away on the other side. The leak would cut the wooden broom handle literally in half.

I have no interest in steam.


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Post By: franpipeman » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 7:03 pm

n 1960 Exelon’s Eddystone Station Unit #1 was the world’s most efficient Ultra-Supercritical Power Plant (2). It was coal fueled and designed for a thermal efficiency of 41%. This plant was a pace setting facility. Low cost power production made possible by its high efficiency and low fuel cost. Now decommissioned, the plant remained in operation for over fifty years. Given its importance to the industry, the Eddystone facility is now an American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) historical landmark. (2)
https://www.asme.org/wwwasmeorg/media/ResourceFil ... n-Unit.pdf

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Post By: KLook » Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 9:18 pm

They would use broom handles to check for steam leaks. The leak would be on one side of the boiler , and the steam would show up 150 feet away on the other side. The leak would cut the wooden broom handle literally in half.

I learned about this from old Navy sailors, some of them had seen men walk into the jet.

Kevin

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Post By: NoSmoke » Wed. Sep. 19, 2018 6:08 am

I know conservation is dull and boring, while building new things is exciting...but I often hear and see of people trying to generate something, rather then just conserve what they have. The problem is, when a person generates something, there is an ongoing cost to it, so the return on investment is a lot smaller. However, conservation is a 1 for 1 deal; save $1 and it goes directly into your pocket.

I have no interest in high pressure steam, nor inefficient low pressure steam to make electricity.

Recently I had the opportunity to do some conservative measures for power in an old house I am renovating. I went with #12 AWS wire instead of #14 netting which has a 6 month return on investment, and a Green Switch which probably already has paid for itself. Other conservation measures will be put into place as well.

It is boring stuff I know, but I think few people consider conservation before they get really excited about making things.

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Post By: Lightning » Wed. Sep. 19, 2018 7:53 am

What is a "Green Switch"?

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Post By: NoSmoke » Thu. Sep. 20, 2018 6:41 am

A "Green Switch" is just a switch located by the front door (or the most often used door in a home) where the last occupant of the home upon leaving, shuts the switch off. All power to non-essential appliances are terminated thus saving electricity from phantom loads, and from the loss of electricity running through the wires.

A person could do the same thing if they went to the load panel and switched off individual breakers, BUT that is seldom done because they are often not in accessible locations.

Some circuits though always need to be powered, like outside lights so when you come home from someplace at night, a person can see, or the refrigerator, or furnaces. It is impossible to generate a list because it depends on appliances and lifestyles. In my house, every room has a "forever-power" outlet, for alarm clocks, and other devices, but the more wiring that can be attached to the "Green Switch" the more energy conservation.

Just how much power can be saved by not having power running through the wires of a house? A LOT! The return on investment of #12 wire versus that of #14 is only 4 months, where as #10 wire over that of #14 wire is 6 months. Now imagine the savings of having zero power losses to 90% of the wiring in a home when no one is home? That really adds up!

But like a late night informercial…"wait there is more"!

Because the "Green Switch" is also hooked up to the well pump, and water heater, should a pipe burst, the pump will not come on and flood the house, and electrical fires are greatly reduced because 90% of the wiring in a house is deenergized while the occupants are away. Those benefits are gone when the occupants return, but at least there is a chance they will see the busted pipe, or smell the electrical fire. So there is a lot of reasons for the "Green Switch" beyond the conservation it allows.

But it is hard to wire up in an existing house because of all the wiring that has to be routed. In a renovation like what I did though, it is easy, it just takes a lot of planning. So I did so. I am not sure on the cost. I think it might have cost me $75 for the extra wire it took to make a few separate runs from dedicated "forever-power" outlets back to the main load panel. This was because my "forever-power" outlets are also 20 amp, 1 outlet only circuits, so every room can have a heavy load, like an air conditioner or electric heater. This also makes the "forever-power" outlet easy to identify, as it is 20 amp and not 15 amp like the others.

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Post By: Lightning » Thu. Sep. 20, 2018 7:46 am

Oh wow. Thanks for that great explanation :)

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Post By: confedsailor » Tue. Oct. 30, 2018 2:34 pm

KLook wrote:
Tue. Sep. 18, 2018 9:18 pm
They would use broom handles to check for steam leaks. The leak would be on one side of the boiler , and the steam would show up 150 feet away on the other side. The leak would cut the wooden broom handle literally in half.

I learned about this from old Navy sailors, some of them had seen men walk into the jet.

Kevin
That was those high pressure jobs like on Cans and Fast Oilers. 1500 psi with few hundred in superheat on top.


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