New use for old Coal Mines

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BigBarney
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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 10:45 am

"The system is capable of generating up to 20 MW of power in shafts varying from 500 feet to 5,000 feet. It can last 50 years without degradation, and it’s cost-effective because it uses existing infrastructure."


http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-science/te ... 0Weekender


This is an excellent reuse of something already in place that could be repurposed for another use and has

new life for many years to come.


BigBarney


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freetown fred
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Post By: freetown fred » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 11:24 am

Unfortunatly B, just like wind & solar--lots & lots of money could be spent on this concept & the only ones making anything will be politicians, contractors & the companies creating the concept.

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Post By: windyhill4.2 » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 11:45 am

BB, how on earth can you fall for this worthless trash ideas...?? :roll:

Perpetual motion fads have been around for many yrs.

Now this fund raising/a few people get rich/company goes bankrupt/freaking plan fades into oblivion .... :shifty:

So i am supposed to fall for the idea that dropping 3000 tons down a deep hole will generate enough electric to help run a region + have enough electrical power left to raise the 3000 tons to the top so this perpetual motion can run another cycle ... :baby: :baby:

I don't need a college edification to see the money trail on this idea. :roll:

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Post By: CapeCoaler » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 12:48 pm

Well it is more of a storage device...
It is designed like a battery but uses physics instead of chemicals...
To store energy for peak demand...
Used instead of gas turbine peak load generators...
Problem is not too many mine shafts close to large power demands...
Energy is lost in long transmission routes...
Best I have seen is the hi-tech flywheel...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage

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Post By: windyhill4.2 » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 1:39 pm

There is far cheaper & more abundant energy stored in cow shyt in thousands of tanks & pits across this country.

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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 2:26 pm

Capecoaler has the right idea , just like a battery , to act as a buffer in

the grid to absorb energy as power demand falls off , by raising the weight,

and release the stored energy at peak demand. These peaking rates are much

higher than base line rates which make it economical. Buy cheap off peak excess

electric and sell back for 10- 20 times the regular rate. Simple to do.

BigBarney

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Post By: Lightning » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 2:31 pm

I like it. This idea of using weights to produce electricity has crossed my mind in the past.

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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 3:10 pm

Especially if they pay you to take the mine off their hands.

This is a long life setup 50+ years and very low maintenance.

The pay back on peaking electricity is very fast at the high price

of summer , air conditioning loads.

http://www.pjm.com/about-pjm/learning-center/pric ... icker.aspx

Power @ $ 25 MWh now has gone to over $ 120+ in the summer

peak. Night rate now $17 so even selling into the grid now

gets a profit of $ 8 MWh not too shabby.

Summer time rates...

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/update/ar ... arkets.php



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Post By: franco b » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 4:13 pm

Years ago water was, and I think still is, pumped up from the Hudson river to a reservoir on the bluff overlooking the river during low power demand, and then used to power generators during high demand.

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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 4:46 pm

Look at Kinzua pumped storage in Warren County PA..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seneca_Pumped_Stora ... ng_Station

450MWh storage with pumping up at night and release to peak demand.




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Post By: joeq » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 5:02 pm

Curious about them old coal mines. Are they actually "dry?", or is it that the current technology can't reach deeper, to access what more that's down there?

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Post By: BigBarney » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 5:48 pm

I almost forgot to add the Robert Moses Power Station at Niagara Fall's

NY and Niagara Fall's ON that has been doing this same thing for over

50 years with pumped storage and using the excess power at night.

They only let a limited amount of water over the Falls in the night

hours. They have over 3 million horsepower available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Moses_Niagar ... ower_Plant


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Post By: freetown fred » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 6:14 pm

B, 3 million isn't squat bein we supply NYC & God knows who else!

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Post By: Pacowy » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 6:29 pm

Fred I think the point is not the size of that plant, but rather that the private sector has found it worthwhile on its own to invest in this type of energy storage, with similar systems now used in many places. I agree the jury is out on the mineshaft thing, but it seems plausible that there may be places where it would work.

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Post By: coalnewbie » Mon. Feb. 19, 2018 6:44 pm

Instead of using a deep shaft put it in a circle and it's called a flywheel. Now you can keep the mine for coal production and put the wheel in a tiny shed. My Listers have flywheels and can start large inductive loads.


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